Which 25 year old or younger QB are you taking? Then rank your top 5

[Buckweath]

54 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

I’m not basing it off recency bias. My list is who I think will end up having the best career

1. Goff

2. Wentz (if he stays healthy and I don’t know if he’s over 25) 

3. Mayfield 

4. Mahomes (hes having a great year but I still want to see him for one more year)

5. Darnold 

LOL. Your argument regarding Mahomes is totally discredited by having Mayfield in front of him but what should I expect from a Rams fan on these boards..

 

But don't worry, you need to see more, you will see more. That boy Goff is no Mahomes. Sorry.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

He's fine. He's played well overall. I have no complaints. Just not ready to say he's on a hall of fame trajectory if he doesn't improve at all. Not everyone has to be in love with him right from the off. I'm not completely in love with him the same way I'm not in love with any of the others. He's played better than the others overall, thus he got the #5 spot, but it's by far the one I had the most question about given that so much of the data surrounding him and the other three rookies is so incomplete at the current point in time. Trying to eval a couple of those guys  may be akin to trying to eval Goff under Fisher. It's pretty bad. So yeah, Baker gets spot 5, but wouldn't surprise me at all if he didn't end up as the best rookie out of that class, despite having the superior rookie season. 

Sometimes, a person can just want to see more. They don't have to have some personal bias in the matter. Baker is fine. I look forward to seeing if he continues to get better. 

Well odds are if Baker never improves he is by far the best QB of his class. And yeah, if he doesn't regress at all I am confident he will be a HOF QB. I honestly don't know how there won't be some regression and I'm just talking arm talent. He has Wentz's arm (pre-injury) with better accuracy. Yeah, he is smaller so some will always hold that against him even if it doesn't show up but that can't be changed. There have been games where every pass was catchable if it wasn't a throw away. This past Sunday is an example, 18-22 and three passes hit receivers in the hands and the other was a throw away after his T.E. ran the wrong route (he discussed that with him after the play, he threw it away to another receiver). In his last 4 games he has been hit 4 times, next closest is 19 over that span. Is it all Greg Robinson being his LT that has made it so easy? What do you think?

If you want to project that Mayfield regresses by a large margin and some other QB improves by a large margin then yeah, he could be passed. If we are just going by what they have shown so far Mayfield is way ahead of those you struggled to put him ahead of and even though he is statistically ahead of them it doesn't do justice to how he has played.

[rocky_rams]

23 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

LOL. Your argument regarding Mahomes is totally discredited by having Mayfield in front of him but what should I expect from a Rams fan on these boards..

 

But don't worry, you need to see more, you will see more. That boy Goff is no Mahomes. Sorry.

Ah Patrick, I figured someone would say that. Which is why I said the list depends on who I’ll think will have the best career. 

Mayfield is more of a pocket passer than you are. And I believe Mayfield will have a better career overall based off what I’ve seen. 

Don’t worry Pat, you’ll have a very good career also, just be more like Rodgers and less like Favre in turnovers. 

[mission27]

Probably Wentz

I think Mahomes is overrated.  Alex Smith is a flea and he put up video game numbers in that offense.

[Forge]

52 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well odds are if Baker never improves he is by far the best QB of his class. And yeah, if he doesn't regress at all I am confident he will be a HOF QB. I honestly don't know how there won't be some regression and I'm just talking arm talent. He has Wentz's arm (pre-injury) with better accuracy. Yeah, he is smaller so some will always hold that against him even if it doesn't show up but that can't be changed. There have been games where every pass was catchable if it wasn't a throw away. This past Sunday is an example, 18-22 and three passes hit receivers in the hands and the other was a throw away after his T.E. ran the wrong route (he discussed that with him after the play, he threw it away to another receiver). In his last 4 games he has been hit 4 times, next closest is 19 over that span. Is it all Greg Robinson being his LT that has made it so easy? What do you think?

If you want to project that Mayfield regresses by a large margin and some other QB improves by a large margin then yeah, he could be passed. If we are just going by what they have shown so far Mayfield is way ahead of those you struggled to put him ahead of and even though he is statistically ahead of them it doesn't do justice to how he has played.

Be excited for your boy. You should be. I'm going to wait more than 10 games before crowning him as better than Rodgers and a hall of fame quarterback. He looks good. Be thankful for that and enjoy the ride and hopefully it holds up. He's not knocked my socks off yet when looking at the season as a whole (he has on some throws, and even some games, but not the season as a whole), but I'm not criticizing the kid. He's had a really good run since Kitchens took over, particularly throwing the ball downfield, he's also faced some really weak defenses. Some games I would actually expect him to play well and others, not so much (going on the road to Houston and playing well would have been really amazing). 

As for the second paragraph, yeah, the bolded is kind of what I'm talking about. Their situations are pretty bad. Improved situations, improved rosters around them and they may actually get a lot better (again, with Goff being the most recent, obvious comparable, and to a lesser extent, Trubisky with Fox). I honestly have no idea what their baseline is at this point (and honestly, that applies for Mayfield as well).  That's why I said that it's almost unfair eval at this point in time. Baker's situation hasn't been ideal, but I'll take that situation and the players around him over the other three and it's not even close as I at least think that his situation allows him some sort of functional offense.  Do I think that any of them will get to Baker's point? I mean, I don't know. LIS, with Allen, I think you're looking at best something between Kaep and Newton, which isn't bad at all, but obviously, you can do better in some regards. I'm not a huge fan overall of Rosen, I think he's a bit limited in what he does, but the right offensive scheme and I think he'll be an okay quarterback, though admittedly I have a hard time seeing the ceiling of the other three, but it's still really early. Obviously, Darnold has the right tools, no doubt, and probably is the most likely to hit his upside out of he, Allen, Rosen, but he makes some boneheaded moves right now. 

So continue to back your guy, like I said, I'll wait before committing to him. I did take him over guys who have larger samples like Winston, Mariota and Trubisky based on his play and upside though. So it's not like I hate the guy. Just really hard to label the likes of the rookies at this point in time. 

 

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

he has elite or close to it arm strength.

That just isn’t true. How do you classify Josh Allen’s arm? Mega-elite?

[stl4life07]

1a Goff

1b Wentz

3 Watson

4 Mahomes

5 Darnold

 

Everyone is prisoners of the moment with Mahomes. Dont get me wrong I love Mahomes but he hasnt faced adversity. I want to see what happens when he gets for the lack of better terms "get punched in the mouth". Even Tyson looked unstoppable until he got knocked out by Buster Douglas. After that he was never the same. As great as George Foreman was, after he got knocked out by Ali in the famous "Rumble in the Jungle" match, he went from what appeared to be an intimating guy who barely spoke words to smiling and selling grills. The point is I want to see Mahomes go through adversity and still do what he is doing. He landed in the perfect situation and hasnt faced any adversity. The only adversity you can say he is starting to faced so far is two games without Hunt. Is that a big enough sample size? No, especially when you consider one of those games was against the Raiders. The biggest game of the two was against another rookie in Jackson in Arrowhead. So I want to see Mahomes go through adversity. People crowned Kaepernick when he first started because he was in the perfect situation playing for Harbaugh on a talented Niners team. What happened when Harbaugh left and the team started losing alot of those talented pieces? Kaepernick started to look bad. So Im not ready to say Mahomes until I see him overcome adversity.

I have Goff and Wentz tied because they both have gone through adversity. Goff rookie season was enough to break any QB. It didnt break him. He is mentally tough and for much as people say its McVay or the system, Goff has worked hard to get better each season. Wentz is the same way. He started out of the gates on fire his rookie season. Lane Johnson got suspended and Wentz wasnt the same. He bounced back though in his 2nd season to have an MVP season that shouldve happened had he not gotten hurt. This season he hasnt looked like he did last season but he hasnt looked terrible either. I have confidence he will bounce back next season and go back looking close to how he did last season during his MVP season form.

I have Watson over Mahomes because he has also overcoming adversity. Bad oline last season that had him running for his life then he gets hurt in practice. He is back and helping the Texans become a serious threat to the Chiefs, Pats, and Chargers in the AFC. Not to mention the oline still isnt great and he was dealing with injuries this season on top of coming back from the same injury Wentz is. Also Goff, Wentz, and Watson have shown they can win the big games. The two biggest games Mahomes faced so far (Pats and Rams) his team lost and he turned the ball over 7 times.

We get to Mahomes, again I love Mahomes. Im not going to be prisoner of the moment. Dak was great his first season as the starter, Kaepernick was great when he got his first shot to start. Carr came out of the gates looking great for the Raiders. None of those QBs are top 10 QBs now. Mahomes has the talent and can do things we dont see from other QBs but that doesnt make him 1st on my list. So as I mentioned earlier I want to see Mahomes go through some adversity and also win some big games. He will eventually have to because the NFL is a hard career. If he can still do what he is doing now then I can move him up my list but right now he is lower on my list.

Last I have Darnold. He has more adversity than everyone on this list. The Jets have nothing on offense and the head coach is a defensive mind. Darnold doesnt have a McVay or a Nagy. Darnold was thrown into the fire from day one. He will get better when he gets that offensive minded head coach and players on offense to help him out. I understand why people have Mayfield higher. Just like in 2016 I understood why people had Wentz higher than Goff and even Dak higher than Goff. Once Goff got into a better situation he was able to catch up if not surpass those guys. Darnold will do the same with Mayfield, Im just already ahead of everyone. I love Darnold coming out and that hasnt changed. His situation is terrible but I believe it will get better and once it does he will be better. 

[SmittyBacall]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well odds are if Baker never improves he is by far the best QB of his class.

This is ridiculous. Mayfield can be the best QB of this class and I like him a lot, but let’s pull back on the reigns a bit. He’s having a nice rookie season, but can we not crown him as a HOF after 11 games? I expect Darnold to be a very good QB in this league.  Boasting Mayfield as elite and writing off everyone else is jumping the gun. Baker isn’t at a level right now no other QB in this class can’t reach.

[Thomas5737]

9 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

That just isn’t true. How do you classify Josh Allen’s arm? Mega-elite?

Pretty much. Allen is the only QB to throw with more velocity at the combine than Mayfield. Mayfield can make every throw with zip. Allen has the stronger arm, as maybe does a few others but that is why I said "or close to it". As far as intermediate passes I don't see much of a difference between Allen and Mayfield's arm strength. Allen can probably throw it further even though I think Mayfield has the longer in air completion between the two, I think it was the longest of the year at 66 yards (Mahomes must have been in preseason that went like 70+).  So, while Mayfield's arm may not be #1 it is up near the top of the league.

[Thomas5737]

4 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

This is ridiculous. Mayfield can be the best QB of this class and I like him a lot, but let’s pull back on the reigns a bit. He’s having a nice rookie season, but can we not crown him as a HOF after 11 games? I expect Darnold to be a very good QB in this league.  Boasting Mayfield as elite and writing off everyone else is jumping the gun. Baker isn’t at a level right now no other QB in this class can’t reach.

If he doesn't get worse he will be a hall of fame QB. Sorry, it's just the truth. Watch the games. Watch the throws. It is crazy. I don't think he can always be as precise as he has been because it is unrealistic but if he is he will be enshrined.

[Bonanza23]

42 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

That just isn’t true. How do you classify Josh Allen’s arm? Mega-elite?

Yeah Mayfields arm strength is pretty good, not elite. 

[Thomas5737]

29 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Yeah Mayfields arm strength is pretty good, not elite. 

2nd best velocity ever at the combine. Throws with more zip than the vast majority of NFL QBs. Has the longest in air completion in the NFL this year. But yeah, it's just pretty good. At worst it is at Wentz's level which if it wasn't elite it was real close.

[Bonanza23]

11 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

2nd best velocity ever at the combine. Throws with more zip than the vast majority of NFL QBs. Has the longest in air completion in the NFL this year. But yeah, it's just pretty good. At worst it is at Wentz's level which if it wasn't elite it was real close.

Watch the physical abuse he puts on his body. Yeah he can sling it for sure. I just wonder how long he can sustain it. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

9 hours ago, evilpimp972 said:

Watson tier 2 ceiling but Darnold tier 1? I don't get it.

Big Darnold fan coming out of college. Rookie season hasn't changed that one bit for me, he obviously has stuff he needs to work on but he's flashed plenty of the skills that made him a top 3 pick. Liked him more than Baker, but Baker has been pretty great, enough so to put him over Darnold for me.

 

Tiers are more of a hunch than anything else, I mean considering these guys are all so young, I feel like they could all conceivably become elite QBs one day... I guess only the guys from the 2014 or 2015 classes have put enough on film, playing in varying circumstances, to where I feel confident projecting how they'll end up. So definitely more just hunches when it comes to Darnold and Watson.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, Bonanza23 said:

Watch the physical abuse he puts on his body. Yeah he can sling it for sure. I just wonder how long he can sustain it. 

That's fair. Just because it appears that he puts a lot of effort into throws doesn't mean it lessens his arm strength though. He certainly doesn't throw it so hard that he loses accuracy so I'm sure there is more effort to be had in his throws. Brees last about 2000 pass attempts before he tore his rotator cuff but he seemed to come back from that with an even better arm so the sky is the limit.