Random Raider Stuff

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Still opinions you want to be facts. "Player respondents" does not tell you who, how many, etc. The NLFPA's methodology in this was largely dismissed. Many GMs/coaches dismissed these reports as being made for shock value.

JMD is likely a pain in that ***, disciplinarian coach who runs long hours. And there are players who are not dedicated to their craft, just want to be home playing Call of Duty. Both things can be true. 

Hence, they FO trying to get their type guys in the building.

Talk about hyperbole and conjecture.  When players were anonymously polled in regards JM and his staff the responses were amongst the worst in the NFL....  That is a fact.   Are you claiming that the reports are false and what was reported by the players is not true or are you dismissing them because they prove that your take on JM is straight up trash and incorrect....  JM is a career loser and that is a fact.  17 and 28 proves exactly that!

Show me in "fact" that players who did not resign or any of the players who signed do not play video games and are not dedicated to their craft... LOL  You're posts are straight up trash and have zero basis whatsoever....

[jimkelly02]

@Frankie2Gunz:

Dont you know the 80 something players (Active, PS, IR, etc) players on our team that took the survey were all lazy, undedicated, problem starters who should be sued for defaming the great JMD.  

Smh…. Its a survey… the grades get averaged… imagine the mental gymnastics required in trying to dismiss the results of a poll where you came in dead last as tainted by “lazy, disgruntled” players.

”Patriot/JMD Way”! 2023! Let’s Go!

Edited April 17, 2023 by jimkelly02

[NickButera]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Still opinions you want to be facts. "Player respondents" does not tell you who, how many, etc. The NLFPA's methodology in this was largely dismissed. Many GMs/coaches dismissed these reports as being made for shock value.

JMD is likely a pain in that ***, disciplinarian coach who runs long hours. And there are players who are not dedicated to their craft, just want to be home playing Call of Duty. Both things can be true. 

Hence, they FO trying to get their type guys in the building.

Ehhh. Hondo's fairly recent article all but confirms this, by essentially shedding more light on the situation. It  was about how McDaniels' coaching style is a very set in stone 'this is what we're running" system, and doesn't take into account much player collaboration, even at the QB position. Off the field though it was the opposite, he said Josh and Ziegler are very personable, relatable and care about their players and families, and listens. But scheme, responsibility and daily football plan was non-negotiables.  There's been a lot reported on this facet of our new regime and it's pretty commonly acknowledged by now. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Talk about hyperbole and conjecture.  When players were anonymously polled in regards JM and his staff the responses were amongst the worst in the NFL....  That is a fact.   Are you claiming that the reports are false and what was reported by the players is not true or are you dismissing them because they prove that your take on JM is straight up trash and incorrect....  JM is a career loser and that is a fact.  17 and 28 proves exactly that!

Show me in "fact" that players who did not resign or any of the players who signed do not play video games and are not dedicated to their craft... LOL  You're posts are straight up trash and have zero basis whatsoever....

I'm saying not every player on the team was survey'd. Most the roster were not their guys to begin with.

I fully think JMD is an authoritarian coach and that rubs some not all wrong. Taking the survey as 100% factual and trying to say "players don't want to sign here" and all the other hyperbole is based in your opinion. 

Mind you the statement read "the lowest rated category". They scored B to A+ across all categories. There is a lot of grey in one statement you are taking liberty with. 

 

[big_palooka]

4 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Ehhh. Hondo's fairly recent article all but confirms this, by essentially shedding more light on the situation. It  was about how McDaniels' coaching style is a very set in stone 'this is what we're running" system, and doesn't take into account much player collaboration, even at the QB position. Off the field though it was the opposite, he said Josh and Ziegler are very personable, relatable and care about their players and families, and listens. But scheme, responsibility and daily football plan was non-negotiables.  There's been a lot reported on this facet of our new regime and it's pretty commonly acknowledged by now. 

Not arguing that at all. This all jives with the coaching tree they are from. Hence trying to find culture fits, etc. 

What I'm arguing is the hyperbole of saying things like no players want to sign here because of it. Our own FA didn't want to resign here. This play only signed here because he was paid. What else was he going to say but he liked the coach, etc. 

All that is nonsense imo. Completely opinion based in nothing. 

Oh... and according to the Never-Pats in here, you can't cite Hondo. He's a company mouthpiece who doesn't know how to do journaling.

Edited April 17, 2023 by big_palooka

[big_palooka]

33 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

@Frankie2Gunz:

Dont you know the 80 something players (Active, PS, IR, etc) players on our team that took the survey were all lazy, undedicated, problem starters who should be sued for defaming the great JMD.  

Smh…. Its a survey… the grades get averaged… imagine the mental gymnastics required in trying to dismiss the results of a poll where you came in dead last as tainted by “lazy, disgruntled” players.

”Patriot/JMD Way”! 2023! Let’s Go!

I could always just make up some story like you about how I spoke to a current player... that of course I can't name and use that as facts. How this works right?

[jimkelly02]

24 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I could always just make up some story like you about how I spoke to a current player... that of course I can't name and use that as facts. How this works right?

I didn’t make up I spoke to a current player… you just can’t figure out what player it was and have a vandetta, but I’ve spoken about this player multiple times on this board.  

Just do your research Like your boy Scott Templeton.

Edited April 17, 2023 by jimkelly02

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Oh... and according to the Never-Pats in here, you can't cite Hondo. He's a company mouthpiece who doesn't know how to do journaling.

I’m sure he’s good at journaling…. He could out journal any 13 year old girl out there (albeit I don’t think kids journal these days with FB, IG, twitter, etc).  
But as Far as journalism goes the guys acted like a shill at points.  You’ve still Refused to explain why it was okay to not show any duality to that article that essentially broke down the breakdown of the working relationship between Carr and JMD.  That’s not to say the journalist hasn’t done good work in the past or after.  

You keep complaining about the opposing viewpoint being hyperbolic and build them up To be Anti-JMD extremists… occasionally masquerade common ground statements like “I think he’s an authoritarian coach”… but then go back to finding one off examples and using them as the gold standard: “Max Jones called him Dad”…. Which is hilarious if you’ve even see this guys YouTube:

…. he’s got an ongoing joke about Mac Jones believing/calling Brady “Dad”.

You do the same thing you complain about.  Not to mention your incredibly petty and antagonistic.

If the polls are as irrelevant as you make them out to be then just consider the comments on this board by those who criticize JMD a version of a poll…. And disregard them as angry, lazy posters.

Edited April 17, 2023 by jimkelly02

[raidr4life]

45 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I'm saying not every player on the team was survey'd. Most the roster were not their guys to begin with.

I fully think JMD is an authoritarian coach and that rubs some not all wrong. Taking the survey as 100% factual and trying to say "players don't want to sign here" and all the other hyperbole is based in your opinion. 

Mind you the statement read "the lowest rated category". They scored B to A+ across all categories. There is a lot of grey in one statement you are taking liberty with. 

 

Look the Raiders had over 30 free agents it's no way you going to fill the roster with 3 or 4 high priced free agents, they chose to resign depth players and sign some bargain guys. We have to find our stars in the draft, bad drafting is why we have none, and they want to correct that. People claiming nobody wants to sign here can't even name a big free agent that was confirmed the Raiders went after, the biggest one I remember is Jordan Poyer and frankly I was not very excited about him. As far as the team itself the offense has a chance to be top tier, some people won't admit that because their beloved ex QB is gone so persist in saying the whole team is trash. I saw the strategy from the very beginning  will it work only time will tell.

[big_palooka]

10 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Look the Raiders had over 30 free agents it's no way you going to fill the roster with 3 or 4 high priced free agents, they chose to resign depth players and sign some bargain guys. We have to find our stars in the draft, bad drafting is why we have none, and they want to correct that. People claiming nobody wants to sign here can't even name a big free agent that was confirmed the Raiders went after, the biggest one I remember is Jordan Poyer and frankly I was not very excited about him. As far as the team itself the offense has a chance to be top tier, some people won't admit that because their beloved ex QB is gone so persist in saying the whole team is trash. I saw the strategy from the very beginning  will it work only time will tell.

That's all this is. A small number of people in their feels because they hate the Patriots, one. And two, were Carr-stans to begin with. 

Somehow, I became the resident McZiggy guy here, simply for saying have some patience and let them do what they were hired to.  They were dealt a bad hand by Gruden/Mayock from their bloated FA contracts, bad trades and atrocious draft record that left the team with limited young talent and massive dead cap implications.

These guys are actively rooting against this regime and it's obvious. They want it to fail to feed their egos.

I personally don't want more turnover, roster rebuilding and setback. If they fail, so be it. But they at least deserve 3 years to work their plan. That is what Davis hired them to do, so might as well enjoy the ride.

[Humble_Beast]

9 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

That's all this is. A small number of people in their feels because they hate the Patriots, one. And two, were Carr-stans to begin with. 

Somehow, I became the resident McZiggy guy here, simply for saying have some patience and let them do what they were hired to.  They were dealt a bad hand by Gruden/Mayock from their bloated FA contracts, bad trades and atrocious draft record that left the team with limited young talent and massive dead cap implications.

These guys are actively rooting against this regime and it's obvious. They want it to fail to feed their egos.

I personally don't want more turnover, roster rebuilding and setback. If they fail, so be it. But they at least deserve 3 years to work their plan. That is what Davis hired them to do, so might as well enjoy the ride.

where was the patience with DC learning a new system. all the crying because he didn't score 50 TDS in the redzone. Now you are talking about patience. 

[Jerry]

41 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

That's all this is. A small number of people in their feels because they hate the Patriots, one. And two, were Carr-stans to begin with. 

Somehow, I became the resident McZiggy guy here, simply for saying have some patience and let them do what they were hired to.  They were dealt a bad hand by Gruden/Mayock from their bloated FA contracts, bad trades and atrocious draft record that left the team with limited young talent and massive dead cap implications.

These guys are actively rooting against this regime and it's obvious. They want it to fail to feed their egos.

I personally don't want more turnover, roster rebuilding and setback. If they fail, so be it. But they at least deserve 3 years to work their plan. That is what Davis hired them to do, so might as well enjoy the ride.

No one is enjoying this ride.  This ride has sucked for 20 years.  I hate this ride.

I mean I'm here and I love the Raiders and when we do well (2016, 2021) but the rest sucks.

[big_palooka]

28 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

where was the patience with DC learning a new system. all the crying because he didn't score 50 TDS in the redzone. Now you are talking about patience. 

DC is a 9 year vet and was making rookie mistakes. I think 9 years was plenty of patience with Derek Carr. He plateaued around and never took his game to the next level. Still the same skittish, questionable decisions and red zone struggles year after year.

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, Jerry said:

No one is enjoying this ride.  This ride has sucked for 20 years.  I hate this ride.

I mean I'm here and I love the Raiders and when we do well (2016, 2021) but the rest sucks.

I agree completely. The same as it ever was has at least changed. Davis opted for the more disciplinarian approach with this regime. Time will tell if that changes anything, but at least Davis isn't afraid to take some shots. 

[ronjon1990]

8 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Look the Raiders had over 30 free agents it's no way you going to fill the roster with 3 or 4 high priced free agents, they chose to resign depth players and sign some bargain guys. We have to find our stars in the draft, bad drafting is why we have none, and they want to correct that. People claiming nobody wants to sign here can't even name a big free agent that was confirmed the Raiders went after, the biggest one I remember is Jordan Poyer and frankly I was not very excited about him. As far as the team itself the offense has a chance to be top tier, some people won't admit that because their beloved ex QB is gone so persist in saying the whole team is trash. I saw the strategy from the very beginning  will it work only time will tell.

Tom Brady. We openly wanted him and very likely expected to get him, hence the relative carefree moves we made early. 

We wound up paying for Great Value's discount Tom Brady to save face. 

Now, I'll give that the QB FA class was a hot heap of steaming garbage this year, but I have a difficult time believing Tom would not have gone to a team he wanted to go to if asked. He didn't want to come here, and the other options were limited to non-existent. 

We'll almost certainly never know the exact reason guys sign one place or another unless the reason is SUPER obvious (ie: Adams wanted to come be a Raider and play with Carr and made it pretty public, though that was a trade). Guys leave places without deals for any number of reasons ranging from physicals to monetary demands. It's practically unheard of for a FA to bash on any team that brought them in for a workout/visit, so hearing anything either way is pretty much never going to happen. All anyone can do is glean, and some people glean from it that we're good at overpaying marginal talent and targeting former Pats players and not a lot else. Why? Who knows. Maybe they get here and don't like McDaniels' face. Maybe someone else simply beat us to the punch. Maybe we never invited them. Maybe we only specifically targeted certain guys. All a bunch of maybes. 

That said, it does give me pause, because of the mental gymnastics it takes to justify certain moves. We've openly gone after former Pats players. That's fine, but it's not like the Pats have been great lately (speaks to overall player quality). 

What answers that? No Tom? McDaniels is better than Bill? How is it we're not just pillaging the guys a team that's largely considered on the downswing's leftovers, instead claiming they're good moves because of the Pats ties? That's a valid question, imo. 

That addresses the FA bit. And you're not wrong, we can't just rely on FA. We also have the draft.....

Another area the Pats haven't been particularly great at for some time, while McDaniels and Zeigler were there. Because of last year's draft, we don't really know whether Zeigler can draft well or not. Early returns were fairly promising, but Davis himself has said Zeigler gets bad advice sometimes and we drafted 2 RBs after signing 2 to fairly bloated deals, all are currently still around, and we now did a similar thing signing virtually every available WR with ties to the Patriots in one way, shape, or form. Can Zeigler draft? It's TBD. But there are certainly questions to be asked. One of those questions I have is "If Zeigler can draft, can Zeigler AND McDaniels?". Who is the bad advice coming from? To what extent is it going to impact the draft? Etc. I don't think Josh McDaniels can draft or scout talent. I think his overall grasp of talent is limited given how relatively poor the Pats skill position guys have generally faired, and I cannot imagine an OC not having at least some level of sway in draft meetings. I give Zeigler a lot more room for error than McDaniels. 

The way I see it, though, a lot of people want their cake and to eat it too when talking about McDaniels and importing the "Patriot Way". Mediocre drafting? Signing a bunch of guys from a team that is on a downturn and has losing records 2 of the last 3 years since the greatest QB of all time left? There's a lot of superimposing past glory on present day going on, and people have a justifiable question about what exactly is being imported. You're arguably importing something without the two main ingredients of a football team: the HC and QB. As far as roster building goes, the Pats haven't really been all that impressive over the years, and Tom routinely worked with absolute scrubs and dragged them across the finish line behind his own play and spectacular coaching. 

Are we to believe Josh is a better HC? That Jimmy ~ Tom? That the "Patriot Way" isn't just a familiarity crutch for McDaniels to lean on, that doesn't really have much rooted in terms of success absent Bill and Tom? There's an idea that the "Patriot Way" is the key to long-standing success, but that ignores the considerable whiffs and misses over the years, years that were never proven without Tom and Bill, and now undergoing a replication attempt by an inferior HC with an inferior QB, inferior overall roster, arguably inferior overall staff, and a guy who's main exposure to the FA and Draft process was with a team that wasn't exactly great at either. To blindly defend the "Way" without pausing and questioning it's downsides is just silly and naive, in my opinion. 

Ergo, can you honestly blame people for being critical or pessimistic about it? Neither of McDaniels nor Zeigler have any level of proven success on their own merits, rather Zeigler is an unknown with ?'s about his background that has made some good moves and some faux-pas while McDaniels has a horrid few years in Denver and St Louis outside of the Tom and Bill umbrella and doesn't appear to have kicked many of the important bad habits, and both are seemingly trying to replicate a system that has failed in every attempt to do so- a system lacking it's two main ingredients and relying on brand recognition and past glory as opposed to a true history of FA signings and draft acumen. 

Making matters worse, the arguments for them seem to be an inverse of the same arguments AGAINST things we did have. 

Carr was often cited as the "constant" that supposedly held us back. That was the argument of many a poster now defending the "Patriot Way", despite assuming that it will work without it's obvious "constants". Seems very "to convenience, as needed" in nature, particularly when the "pro" side is quick to denounce anyone criticizing the moves or asking any of the questions above as being fake fans, secret Saints fans, salty, etc.