NYRaider Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 If we're going to pursue an edge player in free agency I'd prefer it be Melvin Ingram, Bud Dupree, Leonard Floyd, Matt Judon, or Haason Reddick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, NYRaider said: If we're going to pursue an edge player in free agency I'd prefer it be Melvin Ingram, Bud Dupree, Leonard Floyd, Matt Judon, or Haason Reddick. Explain why you think Melvin Ingram who’s about to be 32 and on the decline would be a better signing than Carl Lawson? That makes no sense to me. Edited February 21, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 23 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Explain why you think Melvin Ingram who’s about to be 32 and on the decline would be a better signing than Carl Lawson? That makes no sense to me. I'd be okay with Lawson as well, but in this scenario I'd be looking to sign Ingram as a stop gap while bringing in a pass rusher at #17 like Azeez. In Ingram's last 4 healthy seasons he has 32.5 sacks with at least 7 sacks in all 4 of those years. In Lawson's 4 year career he has 20 sacks and has never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season. According to FA projections Ingram is likely going to get a short term 1-2 year deal at $9-$10M APY while Lawson is likely going to get a long term deal at $13-$14M APY. Ingram is familiar with Bradley's system, has had success in it before, and could bring a veteran presence to our front 7 that we've lacked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: I'd be okay with Lawson as well, but in this scenario I'd be looking to sign Ingram as a stop gap while bringing in a pass rusher at #17 like Azeez. In Ingram's last 4 healthy seasons he has 32.5 sacks with at least 7 sacks in all 4 of those years. In Lawson's 4 year career he has 20 sacks and has never had more than 5.5 sacks in a season. According to FA projections Ingram is likely going to get a short term 1-2 year deal at $9-$10M APY while Lawson is likely going to get a long term deal at $13-$14M APY. Ingram is familiar with Bradley's system, has had success in it before, and could bring a veteran presence to our front 7 that we've lacked. I read somewhere in the neighborhood of 9 per year for Lawson, l have to dig it up but 13 seems more realistic. I found it... https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/carl-lawson-21858/market-value/ That being said I would rather pay 13 for a player who’s prime years are ahead of him rather than 10 for a 32 year old who’s clearly declining and his best years are long gone. Edited February 21, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: that being said I wold rather pay 13 for a player who’s prime years are ahead of him rather than 10 for a 32 year old who’s clearly declining and his best years are long gone. Ingram has proven to be a high level pass rusher, Lawson's best year ended with 5.5 sacks. I'd be bringing in Lawson on a short term, stop gap type deal. And then look to draft someone like Azeez Oujlari to rotate in alongside Ingram. Ingram knows the system and would provide veteran leadership like Justin Tuck did when we drafted Khalil Mack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 I'll definitely be down with Bud Dupree for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, dante9876 said: I'll definitely be down with Bud Dupree for sure. Dupree would be nice but definitely comes with some risks. He only has 1 year of 10+ sack production and is coming off of a torn ACL. But realistically all of the top pass rushers that will hit free agency come with risks and major question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Regardless of where Arnette was drafted he will never be more than an adequate number 2 CB, I am confidant that pick was a panic pick/ reach by Mayock and Gruden. Mullins has shown that he is the superior player and is a solid number 2 CB. This team is lacking an elite, shutdown #1 CB and if one of them slips to us in this years draft and appears to be a lockdown #1, it would be insane to pass on them, that is unless we see a similar caliber player as an edge rusher. I am not saying we break the bank for Rankins but what I am saying is something along the lines of 2 years at 5 or 6 million per year. The risk reward at that price point is well worth it and worst case he is a rotational/ depth piece at a position that has been lacking talent for 20 years. Rankins is 26, a former 1st round pick who has proven he can get after the QB in the NFL. Even if we sign Rankins I would not be opposed to the Nixon/ Shelvin combo. That would give us a stout DL with depth and upside to get after the QB. 3T (Rankins, Nixon and Hurst) 5T (Hankins/Shelvin). I agree that we need to draft an Edge early in the draft. The only Edge rusher I would look at is Carl Lawson who is still young and wont break the bank. If we could land him at say around 8 million per season that would be well worth it. Yannik will command in the area of 20 million, that is a hard pass at that price point. Marcus WIlliams would be another player Mayock should target. Landing Williams, Rankins and Lawson in FA, drafting a CB or another Edge in the 1st, Nixon in the 2nd, LB in the 3rd and Shelvin in the 4th could change this D around. I also think that we need to move on from all of our RB's outside of Jacobs. I pointed out that signing Ingram to a 1 year deal would be smart and then drafting a pass catching back with some speed would also be prudent. With Arnette I don’t even think it matters what any of us think about him. He could very well be a career number two corner. But we didn’t find that out after him playing seven games. All of those opinions are theoretical at this point. From a salary cap and resources standpoint that’s a waste of a first round pick not to find out what we have in him in an extended amount of time. Which is why I use the Colton Miller analogy where everybody was completely down on Colton Miller after that year and thought that we needed a veteran left tackle and then everyone got angry when Trent Brown wasn’t going to play LT. Only to find out that with an extended amount of time he turned out to be a franchise LT. With the whole Rankins thing Young 3Ts always get overpay so I could easily see him making 9 million or more just because of the position he plays. And though he was a first round pick so you know he has talent he’s also coming off of two down years and you also have to consider the fact that New Orleans has one of the best pass rusher in front fours in the NFL so he played around stars. here’s the thing about safety: I would love to have Marcus Williams but if we don’t get him I won’t be the saddest person in the world because this is a very very good free agents safety class so we can just get one of them for what they are worth I’ll be happy as far as offense i’m not concerned about that at all. This off-season asked to be about fixing the defense by getting the players at key positions that they actually don’t have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: With Arnette I don’t even think it matters what any of us think about him. He could very well be a career number two corner. But we didn’t find that out after him playing seven games. All of those opinions are theoretical at this point. From a salary cap and resources standpoint that’s a waste of a first round pick not to find out what we have in him in an extended amount of time. Which is why I use the Colton Miller analogy where everybody was completely down on Colton Miller after that year and thought that we needed a veteran left tackle and then everyone got angry when Trent Brown wasn’t going to play LT. Only to find out that with an extended amount of time he turned out to be a franchise LT. With the whole Rankins thing Young 3Ts always get overpay so I could easily see him making 9 million or more just because of the position he plays. And though he was a first round pick so you know he has talent he’s also coming off of two down years and you also have to consider the fact that New Orleans has one of the best pass rusher in front fours in the NFL so he played around stars. here’s the thing about safety: I would love to have Marcus Williams but if we don’t get him I won’t be the saddest person in the world because this is a very very good free agents safety class so we can just get one of them for what they are worth I’ll be happy as far as offense i’m not concerned about that at all. This off-season asked to be about fixing the defense by getting the players at key positions that they actually don’t have. I've seen enough of Arnette to know he does nothing at an elite level. You can be optimistic all you want but you're flat out delusional if you think he will be anything more than a number 2 CB. He lacks elite speed, he doesn't have elite athletic ability, has never shown elite ball skills and not only that he will be 25 when the season starts next year. If that is not a complete panic pick/ reach at 19 overall then I don't know what to tell you. They screwed up and I'm not saying he can't be a part of this team he was just a terrible pick at 19. They missed out on Jones in FA, had no legit back up plan and I am sure they were 99 percent confidant that Terrell would be there at 19. You can watch the video of Gruden talking to Arnette after he was picked and you can tell he was upset. They selected a player at 19 who didn't belong in the 1st round.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I'm usually not big on bringing guys in over 30 but Sherman and Ingram could be exceptions if they didn't break the bank. Ingram stock is low, he could have a nice bounce back. is a risky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I would be interested on a one year deal with Bud Dupree but he wouldn't be my first option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I've seen enough of Arnette to know he does nothing at an elite level. You can be optimistic all you want but you're flat out delusional if you think he will be anything more than a number 2 CB. He lacks elite speed, he doesn't have elite athletic ability, has never shown elite ball skills and not only that he will be 25 when the season starts next year. If that is not a complete panic pick/ reach at 19 overall then I don't know what to tell you. They screwed up and I'm not saying he can't be a part of this team he was just a terrible pick at 19. They missed out on Jones in FA, had no legit back up plan and I am sure they were 99 percent confidant that Terrell would be there at 19. You can watch the video of Gruden talking to Arnette after he was picked and you can tell he was upset. They selected a player at 19 who didn't belong in the 1st round.... LOL again I never said that he wouldn’t be a number two(I made that pretty clear). Im saying that you’re basing that off of seven games, personal theories and what draft analysts said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 I think that Arnette pick annoys me more then Ferrell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: LOL again I never said that he wouldn’t be a number two(I made that pretty clear). Im saying that you’re basing that off of seven games, personal theories and what draft analysts said. LOL You have no idea what I am basing my evaluation on, so I will tell you. One is my eye ball test, the same eye ball test that said Tua was no where near elite when nearly every other person was putting a yellow jacket on the guy before he took an NFL snap. I have a keen eye for talent and football talent when I decide to put the time in to research a player. There are outside factors that I am not privy to but for the most part my takes are nearly spot on when I do the research. Two is like I said in my earlier post, Arnette has lacks eilte athletic ability, speed and ball skills. He has done nothing at an elite level in college or in the pros and had one above average season in his college career. He is also 25 years old and if he was going to show elite skills in any of these areas if would have come through at this point. What I am saying is that he will never be a lockdown #1 CB, which is what your strive for when selecting a CB in the top 20. Arnette has one year of above average play throughout his colligate and professional career and is going to be 25 at the start of next season. Do you care to explain how what I am saying is not correct and what is your evaluation of Arnette? I hope you're not another one of these homers who think he's a great player just because he wears a Raider uniform. Edited February 22, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: LOL You have no idea what I am basing my evaluation on, so I will tell you. One is my eye ball test, the same eye ball test that said Tua was no where near elite when nearly every other person was putting a yellow jacket on the guy before he took an NFL snap. I have a keen eye for talent and football talent when I decide to put the time in to research a player. There are outside factors that I am not privy to but for the most part my takes are nearly spot on when I do the research. Two is like I said in my earlier post, Arnette has lacks eilte athletic ability, speed and ball skills. He has done nothing at an elite level in college or in the pros and had one above average season in his college career. He is also 25 years old and if he was going to show elite skills in any of these areas if would have come through at this point. What I am saying is that he will never be a lockdown #1 CB, which is what your strive for when selecting a CB in the top 20. Arnette has one year of above average play throughout his colligate and professional career and is going to be 25 at the start of next season. Do you care to explain how what I am saying is not correct and what is your evaluation of Arnette? I hope you're not another one of these homers who think he's a great player just because he wears a Raider uniform. It's way too early to make judgments on rookie cornerbacks. Especially ones who played the year with several concussions/injuries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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