NYRaider Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 20 hours ago, big_palooka said: Hating on Guenther is so much easier than admitting the Raiders suck at drafting defense. I think it's a combination of both. In Cincinnati he inherited an elite defense and was riding Zimmer's coat tails. That defense got progressively worse every year under Guenther after being elite under Zimmer before he got fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Kind of my point. You have to have talent. No coach could have done anything with what is an absolutely terrible group of defensive talent. A coach who doesn't get publicly called out for overcomplicating things for his players would have probably done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: Kind of my point. You have to have talent. No coach could have done anything with what is an absolutely terrible group of defensive talent. Why did the Bengals decline from a defensive powerhouse to an average unit when they went from Zimmer to Guenther? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Jerry said: Asomugha and Mack. Anyway. You're looking at the defense only. And Crosby in the 4th is a steal whether anyone agrees or not. 17 sacks lead his class from what I can recall. Then Moreau, Renfrow, Jacobs, K. Miller, T. Mullen was a good pick IMO. I think they're pretty decent drafts. Didn't get the production we wanted from our last draft class but it was only year one. Again, you're already counting out this last draft class and the class before it for the most part. I still intend to give them time to develop. Especially the players on defense. If they are still scrubs this upcoming season and next or Bradley benches all of them, then I'll agree with you. But I'd rather play the waiting game then just crap on them and throw them in the trash. We're talking about the defense. Crosby was a nice pick. Mullins should be okay. The rest were horrible given where they were drafted. I've seen nothing in any of them to say they are guys that will change the direction of this franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Why did the Bengals decline from a defensive powerhouse to an average unit when they went from Zimmer to Guenther? They were ranked 12, 2, 8 and 16 overall under Guenther. Zimmer 4 seasons before that... 24, 9, 8, 5 Look... I'm not saying Guenther wasn't a bad coach or out of depth. All I am saying is it's not 100% on him. This fan base wants everything so black and white. They chastise every DC, OC, HC for poor production without getting to the crux of the issue. That this team has been a talentless void for 20 years. They've drafted terribly, made horrible trades, etc. and the results are the same over and over no matter the coaching staffs. Carr is the only reason they've dug out into 8-8 territory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, oakdb36 said: A coach who doesn't get publicly called out for overcomplicating things for his players would have probably done better. No doubt... but they'd still be bottom third of the league where they will reside under Bradley because the talent isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 46 minutes ago, big_palooka said: We're talking about the defense. Crosby was a nice pick. Mullins should be okay. The rest were horrible given where they were drafted. I've seen nothing in any of them to say they are guys that will change the direction of this franchise. Well I think if used right, Abram could develop into a serviceable player. I think Arnette needs more than one season to judge. Ferrell was definitely a reach. Hurst needs to bulk up IMO. His initial push is there, just no technique to shed blockers. We'll see. They're all still on their rookie contracts. Maybe things will change with a new DC. But I'm not really holding out hope for some of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: No doubt... but they'd still be bottom third of the league where they will reside under Bradley because the talent isn't there. Fine then because that's what is being said, PG was bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 9 hours ago, big_palooka said: Kind of my point. You have to have talent. No coach could have done anything with what is an absolutely terrible group of defensive talent. A good coach can elevate a B+ player to an A player. But you can't elevate a bunch of D and C players into B players. I will agree this is true 95% of the time but Guenther had the defense playing below its talent level and was not very good at adapting his scheme to the players ability. I think Guenther struggles to implement a new scheme no matter the talent level because from what payers have said he is horrible at communicating with players. In Cinci he took over from a DC using the same scheme and players already knowing what was expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 6 hours ago, oakdb36 said: A coach who doesn't get publicly called out for overcomplicating things for his players would have probably done better. Didn’t Ramsey call Bradley out for calling the same defense all the time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Might be a stupid question, but any chance that Ferrell moves to 3T full time if we draft a stud DE like Rousseau, Paye, or Phillips? Value seems pretty good this year at DE for our draft spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGlove Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Dessie said: Didn’t Ramsey call Bradley out for calling the same defense all the time ? Ramsey was annoyed it was mainly cover 3 and he was used as an outside CB all the time. He wanted to be used all over the backfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 9 hours ago, Dessie said: Didn’t Ramsey call Bradley out for calling the same defense all the time ? I don't know about that story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Dessie said: Didn’t Ramsey call Bradley out for calling the same defense all the time ? https://chargerswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/30/jalen-ramsey-on-chargers-gus-bradley-we-never-changed-defenses/ Quote “Every week, we ran the same defense,” said Ramsey, per ESPN. “We never changed defenses. We never changed plays. Edited February 21, 2021 by big_palooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 18 hours ago, big_palooka said: They were ranked 12, 2, 8 and 16 overall under Guenther. Zimmer 4 seasons before that... 24, 9, 8, 5 Look... I'm not saying Guenther wasn't a bad coach or out of depth. All I am saying is it's not 100% on him. This fan base wants everything so black and white. They chastise every DC, OC, HC for poor production without getting to the crux of the issue. That this team has been a talentless void for 20 years. They've drafted terribly, made horrible trades, etc. and the results are the same over and over no matter the coaching staffs. Carr is the only reason they've dug out into 8-8 territory. I think some thing that’s not really being talked about enough is the impact of Covid and injuries on this team. Now of course we can say that all 32 teams are effected but when it comes to the Raiders Defense we have to think about the fact that that they had 2 starts over 26 years old and there were a lot of first and second year players that were asked to do a lot without an off-season and it showed in the games when they were out of depth in their coverages. Those are things that are taught in the off-season(which there wasn’t because of Covid). If you’ve been playing in the same system for years and you’ve been in the league for years it doesn’t affect you like it would someone like Jonathan Abrams or Damon Arnette. It also affects players that are coming in learning a new system like Cory Littleton. So before we kind of throw out our entire defense because of how bad they were last year, Let’s take into consideration The reality that it may not be a talent problem I thought Paul Gunther was trash and Think that Gus Bradley should be better(for a young defense) A simplified scheme should really help them With that being said, in terms of talent realistically I think the two things that we actually need is a veteran free safety in FA. Draft another 3T and another edge rusher that’s more of a speed rusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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