Dallas Cowboys - NFL Draft Prospect Meetings

[matt79511]

4 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Sidenote, I see a lot of Taco Charlton bashing going on in this thread. What are our  development time expectations for a late first round DE exactly? I don't remember Dlaw being much either by the end of his 2nd year.

Just because we pick Ferguson doesn't mean he will be contributing that much this year compared to Taco with 3 off-seasons with Rod M. under his belt.

p.s. comparing him to Randy Gregory doesn't count. He has a #1 overall talent fieldwise.

D-Law had 7 sacks in his last 8 games as a second-year defensive end. Taco will probably never do that over the course of a full season.

People act like it takes DEs so long to develop and perhaps to an extent that’s true, but with the great ones you absolutely can see it early.

[canadaluvsdallas]

4 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

D-Law had 7 sacks in his last 8 games as a second-year defensive end. Taco will probably never do that over the course of a full season.

People act like it takes DEs so long to develop and perhaps to an extent that’s true, but with the great ones you absolutely can see it early.

I see a peak Anthony Spencer from Taco. It ain't high praise but

[WizardHawk]

 

7 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

D-Law had 7 sacks in his last 8 games as a second-year defensive end. Taco will probably never do that over the course of a full season.

People act like it takes DEs so long to develop and perhaps to an extent that’s true, but with the great ones you absolutely can see it early.

It's not just the lack of production for Charlton, it's the noted bad attitude that brings the criticism. That and he was the brain child of HotBoyz. He really should have been cut based solely on that. I believe what you have seen from Charlton thus far is about the best you're going to see. He's simply not that good in general. 

[matt79511]

1 hour ago, WizardHawk said:

 

It's not just the lack of production for Charlton, it's the noted bad attitude that brings the criticism. That and he was the brain child of HotBoyz. He really should have been cut based solely on that. I believe what you have seen from Charlton thus far is about the best you're going to see. He's simply not that good in general. 

Right. I don’t even think this is a comparable situation to Spencer tbh. Spencer was playing ahead of Ellis by the end of Year 2 and had sole possession of the starting job going into Year 3. That’s not the case here at all.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

1 hour ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Sidenote, I see a lot of Taco Charlton bashing going on in this thread. What are our  development time expectations for a late first round DE exactly? I don't remember Dlaw being much either by the end of his 2nd year.

Awuzie and Woods were both drafted after him, and make up half our starting secondary and 2000 snaps a year. 

Taco barely looks like you can project him as part of the rotation.

[WizardHawk]

When it comes to safety, I think we’re probably selling Thornhill short. He’s not my #1 preference, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is for Dallas

[DaBoys]

I like Thornhill.

[WizardHawk]

1 hour ago, DaBoys said:

I like Thornhill.

Same. Just like Rapp and Abrams a little more. Wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Thornhill were the pick

[DaBoys]

16 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

Same. Just like Rapp and Abrams a little more. Wouldn’t be at all disappointed if Thornhill were the pick

My concern would be that he may be more of a FS, where we already have Woods.

 

I know in the recent past our safeties were interchangeable but under KR that certainly isn't the case. The FS is the playmaker and the SS is the thumper. In Seattle he made Kam Chancellor work. Kam would have been relatively useless in our 2016 scheme. 

In 2018, KR moved our SS to CB, our slot CB to FS, and our FS to SS.

Jeff Heath our "2018 thumper," had a career high tackles and TFL not because he "took a step" but because he played closer to the LOS. This isn't the same ol' strong safety by name only scheme. That's who they are trying to replace. They signed Illoka and a guy like Rapp or another bigger slower hitter wouldn't be horrible in KRs scheme. Dare I say it would be nice. That's why I wanted Landon. We weren't really asking Heath to cover. 

The one game I saw live(vsTampa Bay thanks to @Texas_OutLaw7) Woods was single high all game. Heath was down.

 

 

 

Could Thornhill be our thumper? Idk. Could Woods? Seems like a waste of his skillset.

 

 

[canadaluvsdallas]

3 hours ago, WizardHawk said:

When it comes to safety, I think we’re probably selling Thornhill short. He’s not my #1 preference, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he is for Dallas

He just makes too much sense for us. I'm having doubts he'll last til our pick though. He speed doesn't hold him back and he has excellent ball skills. 

[canadaluvsdallas]

16 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said:

Awuzie and Woods were both drafted after him, and make up half our starting secondary and 2000 snaps a year. 

Taco barely looks like you can project him as part of the rotation.

Although all valid points for Taco, I never felt like his ceiling was really ever that high. I still feel like he could use one more season though. 3 off-seasons is about the right time to equally judge all prospects. Some exceed them, some don't but most show up around year 3.

The attitude concerns might be a bit over-blown, Rod M.'s coaching style usually gets under the skin of most young players, although they aren't that vocal about it. It brought the best out of Anthony Brown after he was thrown in the dog house. Just part of the maturing process, and if he doesn't mature I guess we won't see him here anymore.

[canadaluvsdallas]

If not knox I can see Hurd being our 3rd round pick. Maybe 4th

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

7 hours ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Although all valid points for Taco, I never felt like his ceiling was really ever that high. I still feel like he could use one more season though. 3 off-seasons is about the right time to equally judge all prospects. Some exceed them, some don't but most show up around year 3.

The attitude concerns might be a bit over-blown, Rod M.'s coaching style usually gets under the skin of most young players, although they aren't that vocal about it. It brought the best out of Anthony Brown after he was thrown in the dog house. Just part of the maturing process, and if he doesn't mature I guess we won't see him here anymore.

I agree that Taco was a low floor, low ceiling prospect, but that only solidifies my opinion that we should not allow our sunk cost to dictate our behavior moving forward. Clearly the expectation of any 1st round pick is that, worst case, he’s locked down a starting role by year 3. For Taco to start this year, someone needs to gets injured, Crawford needs gets cut/suspended, and Randy stays suspended. And even then, he’s no lock to beat out Dorance for the spot.

He hasn’t shown the promise and he likely isn’t going to have the opportunity to show it this year. I think there is a pretty good chance that if we revisit this conversation in a year, those holding out hope for Taco are going to feel silly.

FWIW, I would try him at DT and see if he can use his length the bother guards and centers the way Greg Hardy could do so well.

[flyingmonkey30]

10 hours ago, DaBoys said:

My concern would be that he may be more of a FS, where we already have Woods.

 

I know in the recent past our safeties were interchangeable but under KR that certainly isn't the case. The FS is the playmaker and the SS is the thumper. In Seattle he made Kam Chancellor work. Kam would have been relatively useless in our 2016 scheme. 

In 2018, KR moved our SS to CB, our slot CB to FS, and our FS to SS.

Jeff Heath our "2018 thumper," had a career high tackles and TFL not because he "took a step" but because he played closer to the LOS. This isn't the same ol' strong safety by name only scheme. That's who they are trying to replace. They signed Illoka and a guy like Rapp or another bigger slower hitter wouldn't be horrible in KRs scheme. Dare I say it would be nice. That's why I wanted Landon. We weren't really asking Heath to cover. 

The one game I saw live(vsTampa Bay thanks to @Texas_OutLaw7) Woods was single high all game. Heath was down.

 

 

 

Could Thornhill be our thumper? Idk. Could Woods? Seems like a waste of his skillset.

 

 

This is my thought process as well. We keep hearing about how they’re looking for a SS to keep Woods at FS, and the majority of the safeties they’re eyeing are indeed SS. Thornhill seems to be the lone exception

[D82]

I would be shocked if we spent anything less than a 5th at this point on a WR. Which leads me to believe that guys like Brown, Wilson, Hurns, etc. are going to have to put on a heck of a effort to stay on the roster.