Bobikus Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Yeah no, Eli's case isn't as strong as Ben's at all. Even with the two SBs it's borderline and that's with him being helped by the Manning name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Big Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich homie Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Whichever of Eli or Ben retires first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFan13 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Ben probably gets in the easiest of the 3 but if i had to choose a QB between all 3 of them for my team i would take Rivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Ben was largely considered the best over his career and really until aroun 08-09 when Rodgers and Brees really started taking off he was kinda considered the guy in the tier right after Brady and Manning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Letting Rivers in sets a bad precedent. That opens the door for Matt Ryan and Cam Newton who have MVP's and conference championships. Rivers has no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards. If you're a QB, you need something more than stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobikus Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said: Letting Rivers in sets a bad precedent. That opens the door for Matt Ryan and Cam Newton who have MVP's and conference championships. Rivers has no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards. If you're a QB, you need something more than stats. I don't see much issue in putting in a player whose been consistently among the best in the league in even if he didn't get enough media awards or his team wasn't runner up one year. Wouldn't be the travesty that Eli getting in would (and probably will) be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Art_Vandalay said: Letting Rivers in sets a bad precedent. That opens the door for Matt Ryan and Cam Newton who have MVP's and conference championships. Rivers has no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards. If you're a QB, you need something more than stats. I dont see bad precendent as someone who has had a HOF career with continued elite production, career efficiency and volume stats for over a decade. I see that as the standard. The bad precedent would be putting guys in who have 1 season with some arbritary/inconsistent awards. It's pure silliness. I'm just thankful the voters have proven to not use some of the odd standards fans have fabricated. No qb who has 8 probowls isnt not in the HOF and Rivers wont be the first. Didnt you say Mcnabb had a similar argument to Rivers? Thats as crazy as the Cam talk. Contrarians be like. Edited March 16, 2019 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Quote Rivers has no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards. If you're a QB, you need something more than stats. If you want to hold the lack of a SB against Rivers, that is fine. But the lack of all-pros and MVP is a bit unfair. He had a legit case for MVP in 2008 and should have been at least 2nd team all-pro over Brees. There is also a decent chance he makes another all-pro team in 2010 if we had a more logical voting system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 More perspective: Hypothetically, all these active QB's retire right now: Brady Rodgers Brees Ben Eli Rivers Rivers is 6th on that list to get into the Hall and it's not debatable. So, in addition to everything else I mentioned -- no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards -- he wasn't even a top 5 QB of his era. Rivers is great... doesn't deserve a gold jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Art_Vandalay said: More perspective: Hypothetically, all these active QB's retire right now: Brady Rodgers Brees Ben Eli Rivers Rivers is 6th on that list to get into the Hall and it's not debatable. So, in addition to everything else I mentioned -- no SB appearances, no first team all-pros, and no significant awards -- he wasn't even a top 5 QB of his era. Rivers is great... doesn't deserve a gold jacket. I dont see Eli getting in over Rivers. Eli is Plunket and Rivers is Marino lite. It's even more damning how badly Eli is finishing his career, while Rivers is still 10 years later playing at a top 3 to top 5 level qb. I dont believe voters will ignore such a mediocre avg career for 2 games, even if it was vs the Patriots. Logic has to be applied. Who is the better qb? Rivers, comfortably. Who has been more consistent, efficient, productive, dominant.. all of it is Rivers. Not sure how the process can be ask yourself who was better passer, greater qb, more consistent, efficient, productive, dominant, etc... then at the end of that dialogue the OTHER guy is going to the HOF. If it doesnt sound logical, its not going to happen. Those things matter ALOT for HOF career. More than the one off stuff. Edited March 17, 2019 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 6 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: I dont believe voters will ignore such a mediocre avg career for 2 games, even if it was vs the Patriots. Cmon now. From the start of the 07 postseason up until 2016, he was much more than an average QB. In 2011, he threw for just under 5000 yards and carried the 32nd ranked defense and the 27th ranked rushing attack to a Super Bowl win. I like making fun of Eli as much as the next guy, but this constant talk of him being an average QB is making him one of the most underrated QBs of all time. Rivers has been more consistent for sure, but Eli's done some great, HOF-caliber things. Rivers doesn't have that big game ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobikus Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Eli is basically Flacco with better receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Art_Vandalay said: Cmon now. From the start of the 07 postseason up until 2016, he was much more than an average QB. In 2011, he threw for just under 5000 yards and carried the 32nd ranked defense and the 27th ranked rushing attack to a Super Bowl win. I like making fun of Eli as much as the next guy, but this constant talk of him being an average QB is making him one of the most underrated QBs of all time. Rivers has been more consistent for sure, but Eli's done some great, HOF-caliber things. Rivers doesn't have that big game ability. If we went by passer rating, Eli's best season was 93.6. Rivers has had 8 seasons with a higher passer rating than that. By your own admission Rivers is "great". Would you really call Eli great or even close? At very best; good. So by your logic the great player doesnt deserve to be in the hall. But the good player who had a couple of great moments does? I mean even saying that out loud under the simplest terms doesnt make sense. HOF careers are not about a couple of moments. They are about continued excellence/greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Eli's got the lineage and the rings and will retire first, so he's first. Roethlisberger has the rings and the production. First Ballot for him as well. Rivers isn't a first ballot Hall of Fame QB. So he's last unless he retires two years before Ben and Eli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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