Is Philip Rivers a HoF QB?

[Leoric]

9 hours ago, frenchie said:

What does his peers have to do with anything?  So what if Ryan and Rodgers pass him in the stats department? Who cares? 

Rivers has been a great QB since he's been in the league; why are you choosing to ignore this simply because Matt Stafford might, at some point, overtake him in passing yardage?  This argument makes no sense.  If you were one of the best players during your time, you get in.  It shouldn't have anything to do with what other players did during your era.

You're making stuff up...  Who?  Name one QB that retired with top 10 #s that deserves to be in the hall, but is not....  Everyone who was good enough, and had the #s got in, even Moon, who wasn't good enough (IMO), still got in.

and who cares if he's top 10 in stats anyway?  You're reading too much into the bulk stats.  Try looking at the stats on a year by year, then you'll see who had truly great seasons, and who was consistently successful.  You'll also see why I don't particularly care for Fouts, Moon, and to an extent, Stabler.

I didn't crap on him; I'm just stating fact.  He's an average starter, and has been for most of his career, save for 1 fluke season where he somewhat resembled the myth that media and fans make him out to be.   Average QBs don't go to the Hall of Fame, regardless of their rushing stats...

The day Cam Newton gets into the Hall of Fame will be the day the Hall of Fame means nothing...

The only argument Stabler has on Rivers is the Super Bowl, which coincidently was the best season of his career.  Stabler's career #s - 28, 000 YDS, 194 TDs to 222 INTs.  Stabler, like Fouts and Moon, had a few great seasons, mixed in with a lot of not so good ones.  Rivers has been consistently great since he stepped on the field.

Sure they did.  They were good, not great QBs who put up big #s, but never won anything, yet still got in the HOF.  That gives hope to the Bledsoes and Romos of the world...

And I wasn't making a case for Romo, but his numbers look much better than Fouts and Moon's, when you consider he was only an 8 year starter...

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said about Fouts; he had a great run in the early 80's, but my argument against him was that he turned the ball over too much, which he did.

He was named all-pro twice:  1979 when he threw 24 TDs and 24 INTs....   and in 1982 in which he only played 10 games throwing 17 TDs to 11 INTs.  I guess kudos on all-pro, but those #s don't impress me..  Honestly his best season was '81, where he didn't get any awards, go figure...

Fouts made all decade simply because his heyday was during that void between the retirement of Tarkenton, Staubach, etc, and the arrival of Montana, Marino, etc.  What other great QBs were in their prime between '78-'83? Nobody.   His peers during that time was washed up Bradshaw, washed up Stabler, Jaws, Theismann, and Archie. 

Rivers, on the other hand, played during what I consider the most competitive era at the QB position.  He didn't get many awards simply because his peers throughout his career consist of Favre, Warner, Brees, Brady, Manning, Ben, Eli, Rodgers, all of whom are HOFers or future HOFers.  Despite this, Rivers still managed to be a perennial top 5 QB for most if not all of his career.

Well if that's why he got in, then shame on the HOF committee, because as of right now, Moon is the easiest case you can make for a QB that doesn't belong... 

Rivers has been a top 5 QB for his entire career.  Moon was never a top 5 QB, save for a couple seasons here and there..

So again, with Moon and Fouts in, Rivers walks in pretty easily, just not 1st ballot...

I don’t see Rivers getting in. Love him. Extremely grateful he was my quarterback but the lack of team success hurts him. Mike McCoy, Norv Turner and especially Dean Spanos Hirt his chances of making the hall. Rivers was/is a great football player but never got the right bounces. Being one game away from the Super Bowl and your future hall of fame Running back is hurt on the bench with his helmet on in tears was a bad break. 

 

As for Moon. It’s the pro football hall of fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. Moon made the CFL watchable. To the point the NFL needed to poach him. Threw up a ton of stats there then came to the NFL and was exciting to watch. He’d run, he’d throw, he was a nightmare to gameplan for. Tough as nails. I saw him take hits that would break the modern day qb’s. 

[N4L]

8 minutes ago, Boltstrikes said:

I don’t see Rivers getting in. Love him. Extremely grateful he was my quarterback but the lack of team success hurts him. Mike McCoy, Norv Turner and especially Dean Spanos Hirt his chances of making the hall. Rivers was/is a great football player but never got the right bounces. Being one game away from the Super Bowl and your future hall of fame Running back is hurt on the bench with his helmet on in tears was a bad break.

I respect this post for its honest assessment. 

 

Rivers hasnt had 'the right bounces' to be a Hall of Fame player. He's been a good player for a long time, but in order to be considered a GREAT QUARTERBACK you have to win in the post season. That just the way this whole thing is set up. 

I would absolutely flip this opinion if we are talking about frank gore, which only makes me respect the honest take of @Boltstrikes even more. To be fair, being a RB on a team that throws four fade routes to michael crabtree from first and goal in the fourth quarter of the superbowl is a little different than a guy who has the power to call his own audibles and simply hasnt gotten it done. Frank Gore has been on some terrible teams. Say what you want about Rivers, hes never exactly been on teams devoid of talent. 

Bottom Line: Rivers not a HOFer

[frenchie]

12 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

I don’t see Rivers getting in. Love him. Extremely grateful he was my quarterback but the lack of team success hurts him. Mike McCoy, Norv Turner and especially Dean Spanos Hirt his chances of making the hall. Rivers was/is a great football player but never got the right bounces. Being one game away from the Super Bowl and your future hall of fame Running back is hurt on the bench with his helmet on in tears was a bad break. 

 

As for Moon. It’s the pro football hall of fame, not the NFL Hall of Fame. Moon made the CFL watchable. To the point the NFL needed to poach him. Threw up a ton of stats there then came to the NFL and was exciting to watch. He’d run, he’d throw, he was a nightmare to gameplan for. Tough as nails. I saw him take hits that would break the modern day qb’s. 

I guess we agree to disagree about Rivers.

I just don't understand how you can say Rivers is an emphatic no, but then go on and on about Warren Moon.  And I know it's not fair to compare players of different eras, but come on, its no contest.   And as for the CFL, that's the minor leagues; nobody cares about what he did in Canada.

[otg]

13 minutes ago, frenchie said:

I guess we agree to disagree about Rivers.

I just don't understand how you can say Rivers is an emphatic no, but then go on and on about Warren Moon.  And I know it's not fair to compare players of different eras, but come on, its no contest.   And as for the CFL, that's the minor leagues; nobody cares about what he did in Canada.

It's The Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the National Football League Hall of Fame.

[lancerman]

20 minutes ago, frenchie said:

I guess we agree to disagree about Rivers.

I just don't understand how you can say Rivers is an emphatic no, but then go on and on about Warren Moon.  And I know it's not fair to compare players of different eras, but come on, its no contest.   And as for the CFL, that's the minor leagues; nobody cares about what he did in Canada.

Warren Moon mostly got in for historical purposes. So unless you are going to argue there's some historic need for Rivers to get in, it's really not applicable.

[patriotsheatyan]

Rivers represents the first true Catholic QB of the Post Merger era.

[frenchie]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Warren Moon mostly got in for historical purposes. So unless you are going to argue there's some historic need for Rivers to get in, it's really not applicable.

So you're admitting that Moon didn't get in on merit?

1 hour ago, otg said:

It's The Pro Football Hall of Fame, not the National Football League Hall of Fame.

ok...  Why do people keep saying this?  Are you suggesting that the Hall of Fame start inducting CFL players? 

[patriotsheatyan]

If Rivers play another three seasons at a pro bowl level and ends up top five in every big stat and with 10-11 pro bowls, but not All Pros, MVPs, SBs, or AFCCs, would he make it?

[Bearerofnews]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

If Rivers play another three seasons at a pro bowl level and ends up top five in every big stat and with 10-11 pro bowls, but not All Pros, MVPs, SBs, or AFCCs, would he make it?

Said it before ill say it again. There is qbs with all pros not in the hall. There is qbs with an mvp not in the hall, there is qbs with rings not in the hall.

 

There is 13 qbs in NFL history with 8 probowls. All of them are in the hall of fame, that are retired. Unless people are actually saying Rivers will be the outlier to all time trend that has a 100% track record, Rivers is a lock. There is no doubt about it. Its why i stopped arguing with people on here. It's their opinion vs a 100% NFL proven trend. I like the chances of the latter.

If Rivers gets to 10 probowls, 0% chance he wont be a HOF qb. Only 39 players out of 10000s have been selected to 10 probowls. Its nearly the most exclusive club in NFL history. Outside of like players with 3 sb rings plus, or multiple MVPs or 3 plus all pros. ACCUMULATION achievements. 

This is all posture.. Rivers will be in the hall,  guaranteed.

Show me just 1 player, any position, any era with Rivers regular season consistency and greatness who didnt make the HOF and id start listening.  Top 5 production and efficiency at his position for the 12 years hes been starting. Not sure when the number became top 4. Its either top 3 or top 5. Top 4 is a random arbritary ranking to either include someone who isnt top 3 or exclude someone who is top 5. 

Ive heard people compare Cam, Mcnabb and Bledsoe to Rivers and then it was clear, there was people truly void of the context of this topic. Those 3 dont compare to Rivers numbers in any context. 

[SkippyX]

1 hour ago, patriotsheatyan said:

If Rivers play another three seasons at a pro bowl level and ends up top five in every big stat and with 10-11 pro bowls, but not All Pros, MVPs, SBs, or AFCCs, would he make it?

Pro Bowls mean nothing for a QB anymore.

• There are 6 guys in the Pro Bowl.
• 2 guys were DQ'd for making the Super Bowl.
• Another bunch of guys beg off for injury.

Did Dak Prescott and Mitchell Trubisky add to their Hall of Fame resume by 'making the pro bowl' this year?

• They were 14th and 16th in passer rating, but they were Pro Bowl players.

 

 

[Bearerofnews]

15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Pro Bowls mean nothing for a QB anymore.

• There are 6 guys in the Pro Bowl.
• 2 guys were DQ'd for making the Super Bowl.
• Another bunch of guys beg off for injury.

Did Dak Prescott and Mitchell Trubisky add to their Hall of Fame resume by 'making the pro bowl' this year?

• They were 14th and 16th in passer rating, but they were Pro Bowl players.

 

 

We arent talking 1 or 2 probowls.

There is 13 qbs (i know a broken record, people dont seem to grasp it) in NFL history with 8 or more probowl selections and they are all in the hall of fame. The exceptions are Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rivers. 1 or 2 probowls dont have much substance overall. 8 probowls or more have historic substance and track record shows that.

39 players in NFL history with 10 or more probowls and all of them are in the HOF or will be. 

Regardless what fans think of the probowl. Voters value them. 2/3 of the votes is by coaches and players (peers) that means something. 

[SkippyX]

28 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

... Ive heard people compare Cam, Mcnabb and Bledsoe to Rivers and then it was clear, there was people truly void of the context of this topic. Those 3 dont compare to Rivers numbers in any context. 

Cam Newton?

• He has led his team to the Super Bowl.
• He was league MVP.
• Cam is not yet 30 and he has 182 passing TDs, 58 rushing TDs, 28,500 yards passing and 4800 yards rushing at 5.2 a pop.
• Cam has a great shot at 400+ passing TDs and 100+ rushing TDs
  • There are 9 RBs with 100+ rushing TDs and 7 are in the Hall, the 8th will be (Peterson) and Shaun Alexander.
• If Cam plays at this pace into his late 30s, he gets in easy.

 

McNabb was an anchor on a great team. He can buy a ticket to visit the Hall of Fame.

• His passing numbers as a WCO QB on a good team are horrific.

Bledsoe does not compare to Rivers.

[Bearerofnews]

12 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Cam Newton?

• He has led his team to the Super Bowl.
• He was league MVP.
• Cam is not yet 30 and he has 182 passing TDs, 58 rushing TDs, 28,500 yards passing and 4800 yards rushing at 5.2 a pop.
• Cam has a great shot at 400+ passing TDs and 100+ rushing TDs
  • There are 9 RBs with 100+ rushing TDs and 7 are in the Hall, the 8th will be (Peterson) and Shaun Alexander.
• If Cam plays at this pace into his late 30s, he gets in easy.

 

McNabb was an anchor on a great team. He can buy a ticket to visit the Hall of Fame.

• His passing numbers as a WCO QB on a good team are horrific.

Bledsoe does not compare to Rivers.

In a pass heavy era, Cam has.

1 season with 4000 yds

1 season over 25 tds

3 seasons with atleast 60% comp. Only 1 at 65% or more.

Only 2 seasons with atleast 90 passer rating and never 100.

So basically you want to put him in for rushing as a QB?

 

If McNair is not in i have a hard time seeing Cam. Same for Cunningham.

[SkippyX]

3 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

We arent talking 1 or 2 probowls.

There is 13 qbs (i know a broken record, people dont seem to grasp it) in NFL history with 8 or more probowl selections and they are all in the hall of fame. The exceptions are Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rivers. 1 or 2 probowls dont have much substance overall. 8 probowls or more have historic substance and track record shows that.

39 players in NFL history with 10 or more probowls and all of them are in the HOF or will be. 

Regardless what fans think of the probowl. Voters value them. 2/3 of the votes is by coaches and players (peers) that means something. 

How many of those 8 were awful in the playoffs, barely had impact winning seasons(12+), and were dwarfed by 10+ QBs who played during their careers?

How many of them were the 3rd best impact QBs in their draft class?

He's a very good QB who has not proven anything but stat compiling yet.

Kerry Collins and Vinny Testaverde compiled stats as well. Collins even got to a Super Bowl.

• Of course Rivers is better than them, but his resume is not Hall of Fame.

Rivers' playoff resume is like Kerry Collins with less Championship games.

[lancerman]

3 hours ago, frenchie said:

So you're admitting that Moon didn't get in on merit?

ok...  Why do people keep saying this?  Are you suggesting that the Hall of Fame start inducting CFL players? 

He got in on merit, he got in for historical significance