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agarcia34

Raiders sign Lamarcus Joyner

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Interesting signing. He was outstanding in 2017 but fell off a bit in 18, definitely a solid player and another big upgrade for the Raiders. We should be set a safety now. Joyner, Joseph and Harris is a nice group. Based on the players we kept and added. The first 3 draft picks could be EDGE, TE, CB. something like that. 

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He was a S/NCB in a cover 2-4 scheme in '17 and before, while he was a single high S under Wade Phillips in 2018. That is why his play regressed a bit.

We will most probably use him like the Rams used him in '17 and before that.

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So odd how last year safeties could barely sign and made peanuts and now making over 10 mill easy.

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2 hours ago, Rolni said:

I'm not a fan of this move...and I quite like Joyner as a player.

We have had troubles against TEs since I can remember, we have Kelce and Hunter in our division and we bring in a 5'8 S to pair with out own 5'10 guy?!?! Really?!

Joyner is a really good fit as a cover 2 or cover 4 S (and we use those coverages a lot) and he can be a solid NCB for us too. He is basically a much better version of Gilchrist for us, but I still can't see this Smurf Starting Safety tandem working well. 

Erik Harris should have a solid rotational role as S when Joyner is at CB and also possibly Harris can be a TE guard even from LB spot if we can't upgrade the LB spot enough...

I thought it was only me that wasn't a big fan of this move :)

I'm with you on this Rolni, I do like Joyner as a player but he seems to be a really expensive version of Gilchrist in our system. I don't like him in the box as much as Joseph, he's far too small to cure our TE woes and he doesn't really excell as a roaming Woodson type FS being a ballhawk in the deep. We will play 3 safety sets a lot I think and use Joyner as the Nickel and in coverage a lot as you say but he does seem very expensive for that role IMHO. 

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10 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I thought it was only me that wasn't a big fan of this move :)

I'm with you on this Rolni, I do like Joyner as a player but he seems to be a really expensive version of Gilchrist in our system. I don't like him in the box as much as Joseph, he's far too small to cure our TE woes and he doesn't really excell as a roaming Woodson type FS being a ballhawk in the deep. We will play 3 safety sets a lot I think and use Joyner as the Nickel and in coverage a lot as you say but he does seem very expensive for that role IMHO. 

Not the first time when we agree here :)

 

I like him a lot in our cover 2, cover 4 scheme on the back end. I could also live with the Joseph-Joyner pair, since both of them are fast, agressive and tough players, but I just can't see our answer for Kelce, Hunter with this move and with this S group...maybe Harris will have a big role in that, but I would be worried if we rely to much on him. The ST and nickel S role is enough IMO and that LB/S-TE guard role could be just too much to ask...

We will at least have speed in the backend :)

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I said the same thing in another thread. We need to draft Devin White or Devin Bush. 

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2 hours ago, roi34 said:

So odd how last year safeties could barely sign and made peanuts and now making over 10 mill easy.

Yeah dont get it. Also dont get why there wasnt a team without a need at safety simply tying one of the better ones up long term last year when the market value was that low.

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Lots of assumptions that Harris is an odd man out. Not much mention that Joseph could easily be the odd man out, or traded. Considering he is still a safety who can't cover. I am sure the coaches know Joseph and Joyner on the field together present a mismatch on height. It's my belief Joseph is either gone or a part timer. 

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3 hours ago, Rolni said:

He was a S/NCB in a cover 2-4 scheme in '17 and before, while he was a single high S under Wade Phillips in 2018. That is why his play regressed a bit.

We will most probably use him like the Rams used him in '17 and before that.

Yea gruden mentioned how vs some teams you need 6-7 dbs on the field sometimes so we needed versatile guys. Joyner fits that line of thinking 

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1 hour ago, holyghost said:

Lots of assumptions that Harris is an odd man out. Not much mention that Joseph could easily be the odd man out, or traded. Considering he is still a safety who can't cover. I am sure the coaches know Joseph and Joyner on the field together present a mismatch on height. It's my belief Joseph is either gone or a part timer. 

Don't totally agree here, I think Joseph is pretty good in coverage just his length counts against him against much bigger targets, which unfortunately will be the same for Joyner. It was my concern with him when we drafted him even though I absolutely loved him as a prospect and of course we go and put him in a position where his weaknesses are exposed. Good coaching could do him the world of difference and we started to see it the end of last year maybe.

I've probably been one of KJ's bigger supporters here though he could well be odd man out next season. It would be a shame as I think he could be really good in the right scenario.

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Only concern is having two sub 5'10 safeties, TEs going to be a issue again if we ain't careful. But he is a versatile player. Deal may be a little rich for my liking, but we need youth and speed on Defense especially the back end. No more Nelsons or Gilchrists. 

I hope this doesn't prevent us from taking a safety this draft.  I'm wanting Adderley as a versatile, deep safety.

 

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if he can come in and help lock down shiftier slot guys that's a Win, in my book. This defense needs an infusion of talent, ill take it in all forms. I believe this checks Safety off the needs list, I also feel like KJ is safe, he was coming into his own last season, and finished the season as our best defender imo

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6 hours ago, Jerry said:

I said the same thing in another thread. We need to draft Devin White or Devin Bush. 

If Allen, Bosa, and Williams are gone I would be perfectly happy with White at #4 if we can’t trade down a few spots.  I think a leader in the middle of our D would make a huge difference(I’ve been begging for an ILB for several years now).

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3 minutes ago, daineraider said:

If Allen, Bosa, and Williams are gone I would be perfectly happy with White at #4 if we can’t trade down a few spots.  I think a leader in the middle of our D would make a huge difference(I’ve been begging for an ILB for several years now).

I think this is the only way I'd be okay with it.  I think every player we should get after the big three is a reach unless we trade back.  If we don't, and this happens, I'll still be happy with it.  I'm just hoping we can get a trade back to 6-8 and pick him up then.  But who knows if that's even a safe bet.

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