VY-FTW Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 On 8/28/2017 at 10:35 PM, TitanSlim said: I saw that Stafford has a career record of 5-46 record against teams with winning records. That's crazy to me. Crazy stat.. But not when you think about how bad some of those Lions teams have been over the years lol. I'm happy for Matt. Always been a fan of his. Not the best QB in the league but he's pretty damn good. Get him more players haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Stafford's rankings among the NFL QBs since 2009 (min. 1,000 pass attempts): Completion Percentage: 22ndTD Percentage: 20thINT Percentage: 21stQuarterback Rating: 21stYards/Attempt: 26thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 21stQB Wins: 16thQB Losses: 4th most Some other QBs. Starting with those generally considered the NFL's best. Brady: Completion Percentage: 10thTD Percentage: 4thINT Percentage: 2ndQuarterback Rating: 3rdYards/Attempt: 8thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 2ndQB Wins: 1stQB Losses: 27th most Rodgers: Completion Percentage: 5thTD Percentage: 1stINT Percentage: 1stQuarterback Rating: 1stYards/Attempt: 1stAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 1stQB Wins: 2ndQB Losses: 18th most Brees: Completion Percentage: 1stTD Percentage: 3rdINT Percentage: 15thQuarterback Rating: 2ndYards/Attempt: 5thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 4thQB Wins: 3rdQB Losses: 8th most Peyton: Completion Percentage: 2ndTD Percentage: 2ndINT Percentage: 19thQuarterback Rating: 5thYards/Attempt: 9thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 3rdQB Wins: 7thQB Losses: 38th most Roethlisberger: Completion Percentage: 8thTD Percentage: 8thINT Percentage: 12thQuarterback Rating: 7thYards/Attempt: 26thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 3rdQB Wins: 5thQB Losses: 11th most Rivers: Completion Percentage: 7thTD Percentage: 7thINT Percentage: 27thQuarterback Rating: 8thYards/Attempt: 4thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 9thQB Wins: 10thQB Losses: Most A couple mid-tier QBs. Matt Ryan: Completion Percentage: 6thTD Percentage: 11thINT Percentage: 11thQuarterback Rating: 9thYards/Attempt: 14thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 10thQB Wins: 4thQB Losses: 5th most Andy Dalton: Completion Percentage: 14thTD Percentage: 15thINT Percentage: 23rdQuarterback Rating: 13thYards/Attempt: 19thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 16thQB Wins: 13thQB Losses: 19th most And now for some of the lower tiers. Flacco: Completion Percentage: 19thTD Percentage: 30thINT Percentage: 17thQuarterback Rating: 28thYards/Attempt: 31stAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 28thQB Wins: 6thQB Losses: 9th most Cutler: Completion Percentage: 18thTD Percentage: 12thINT Percentage: 39thQuarterback Rating: 27thYards/Attempt: 24thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 30thQB Wins: 17thQB Losses: 7th most QBs definitely have some outliers for stats, and any one statistic, but when you look at a bunch of them, you can see much clearer pictures of where a QB ranks overall. Even looking at some advanced metrics, Stafford has never finished higher than 10th in DVOA for a single season, and in last year's impressive season, he was merely 14th. It seems like quite the overpay. The flip side of this is that in 2018, Cousins, Bradford, Winston, and Mariotta will all have the ability to top it (and I imagine at least two of them will), and by the end of the 2020 season, all but 4 of the current starting QBs will need new contracts that will push Stafford's deal back toward the middle of the pack. But it will be one of the top QB contracts over the next 3 seasons. And the other side - the Lions still have near $50 million in cap room for 2018, so it's not like they won't be able to do much of what they'd need. Especially since that now factors in the oversized QB contract most teams have on their cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 On 8/28/2017 at 9:09 PM, TitanLegend said: So you're telling me the Lions roster has been just good enough for them to dominate non-winning record teams(.710 winning percentage in those games, 8th best in the league), but the gap between their roster and winning teams rosters is so big they can only manage 5 wins? Something ain't adding up there bro. It certainly isn't and I'm not implying it's all Stafford's fault, but there's an issue somewhere in there. I'm not sure any other QB in modern NFL history who has started the same number of games as STafford could claim a record that bad vs winning teams. I mean all he/the Lions have to do is win games against 9-7 teams. It's not asking him to beat the Pats 20 times. And yes using wins solely to evaluate QB play is bad, but you're kidding yourself if you don't believe that the biggest difference in wins or losses in todays game is QB play. If you don't have a good QB or an absolutely top tier defense, you aren't winning football games. QBs are supposed to elevate their teams. Especially QBs who get paid like this. I'm curious now. What are the stats for other top 10 QBs with regards to record against teams with winning records ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said: Stafford's rankings among the NFL QBs since 2009 (min. 1,000 pass attempts): How is supporting cast seemingly ignored in this conversation? In the ultimate team sport, the team has been terrible, and his numbers reflect that. Stafford is a fringe top 10 QB at worst, entering his prime, on a team with a strong, improved supporting cast. He's undoubtedly a franchise QB, and the contract is in line with the league norm and his status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Xenos said: I'm curious now. What are the stats for other top 10 QBs with regards to record against teams with winning records ? From Scott Kacsmar https://twitter.com/FO_ScottKacsmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 $135 million is an obscene amount of money, but Stafford is really all they have since Calvin Johnson retired. They couldn't take even the slightest chance of losing him, so they made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Unfortunately for Detroit... On 8/28/2017 at 11:16 PM, OleXmad said: Stafford's a good QB and he got paid, but until the lions surround him with enough talent to actually win a playoff game he "won't live up to the deal" Does anyone really believe they'll get their act together in time to build a Super Bowl-worthy team around Stafford before his career ends? I know hope springs eternal, but I just don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Stafford is just entering his prime and the team is steady and on the upswing. A few pieces away, sure, but this is a team that should continue to compete, and could possibly make a run. Keeping Stafford was key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagahide13 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I can't believe some of the arguments I'm seeing here. Straight up refusal to answer questions, manipulating questions and data to fit your narratives. Shane, TL asked you if Rodgers played at this same level for another 6 years, but GB didn't win a championship during that time, would you be happy? That question magically morphed into something completely different by the time you attempted to address it. Stop condescending. I'm actually watching a GB fan compare Stafford directly to Brett Favre to Stafford's detriment. One of the greatest QBs of all time. I can't even believe the lack of perspective here. People showing Stafford's efficiency stats is fine. However, for proper perspective, one should also show his volume stats. He's is among the ALL TIME LEADERS in pass attempts p/g, completions p/g, yards p/g, 4th quarter comebacks, etc. He's forced to throw constantly. Whatever. This does me no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: How is supporting cast seemingly ignored in this conversation? In the ultimate team sport, the team has been terrible, and his numbers reflect that. Stafford is a fringe top 10 QB at worst, entering his prime, on a team with a strong, improved supporting cast. He's undoubtedly a franchise QB, and the contract is in line with the league norm and his status. According to some, he hasn't had decent teams in the past, but he's had high quality players at nearly every position since entering the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotsheatyan Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 On August 28, 2017 at 9:45 PM, IDOG_det said: Happens when you take over for the worst team in history that was incapable of building a defense, offensive line, or stable of running backs. And you know that Stafford had virtually no playing time his first two years, making almost that entire stat based on the Lions from 2011 onwards where talent hasn't been an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madridista Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Oh man. We're doomed. For as long as Stafford has that title, I guess we'll never improve... Thank goodness the next QB in line will take that title in a handful of months. I admire the straw man arguments here. Gotta love when fans feel obligated to defend their team's bad moves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, ninerfanwheelz said: I admire the straw man arguments here. Gotta love when fans feel obligated to defend their team's bad moves It's only a straw man if he's not refuting what was stated. Reading helps. Also, when my team makes a bad move, as they do often, I will say so. Completing a deal everyone knew was going to happen and makes sense for both sides, do not factor into a "bad move". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madridista Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: It's only a straw man if he's not refuting what was stated. Reading helps. Also, when my team makes a bad move, as they do often, I will say so. Completing a deal everyone knew was going to happen and makes sense for both sides, do not factor into a "bad move". Loool if you say so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2lamanaki Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: How is supporting cast seemingly ignored in this conversation? In the ultimate team sport, the team has been terrible, and his numbers reflect that. I'm sorry. Which receiver other than Calvin Johnson did you want the Lions to have from 2009-2015? I can think of 31 teams who would have been happy to trade. Some might say the Lions had the best receiver in that time, I mean especially since he had the most receiving yards and touchdowns and was second only to Brandon Marshall in receptions in that time. From 2009-2013, Brandon Pettigrew was the 10th most prolific receiving tight end. From 2014-2016, Eric Ebron is the 15th (11th over the last two years). Golden Tate is the 10th most prolific receiver over the last 3 years. Nate Burleson and Calvin Johnson combined for more receiving yards as the top two receivers than all but 2 other top two receiver tandems (Jennings/Nelson in Green Bay, Maclin/Jackson in Philadelphia). Seems like Stafford had a better supporting cast situation than a bunch of quarterbacks. Certainly Rivers, Flacco, Alex Smith, etc. would prefer/would have preferred these options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 5 hours ago, y2lamanaki said: Stafford's rankings among the NFL QBs since 2009 (min. 1,000 pass attempts): Completion Percentage: 22ndTD Percentage: 20thINT Percentage: 21stQuarterback Rating: 21stYards/Attempt: 26thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 21stQB Wins: 16thQB Losses: 4th most Some other QBs. Starting with those generally considered the NFL's best. Brady: Completion Percentage: 10thTD Percentage: 4thINT Percentage: 2ndQuarterback Rating: 3rdYards/Attempt: 8thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 2ndQB Wins: 1stQB Losses: 27th most Rodgers: Completion Percentage: 5thTD Percentage: 1stINT Percentage: 1stQuarterback Rating: 1stYards/Attempt: 1stAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 1stQB Wins: 2ndQB Losses: 18th most Brees: Completion Percentage: 1stTD Percentage: 3rdINT Percentage: 15thQuarterback Rating: 2ndYards/Attempt: 5thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 4thQB Wins: 3rdQB Losses: 8th most Peyton: Completion Percentage: 2ndTD Percentage: 2ndINT Percentage: 19thQuarterback Rating: 5thYards/Attempt: 9thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 3rdQB Wins: 7thQB Losses: 38th most Roethlisberger: Completion Percentage: 8thTD Percentage: 8thINT Percentage: 12thQuarterback Rating: 7thYards/Attempt: 26thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 3rdQB Wins: 5thQB Losses: 11th most Rivers: Completion Percentage: 7thTD Percentage: 7thINT Percentage: 27thQuarterback Rating: 8thYards/Attempt: 4thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 9thQB Wins: 10thQB Losses: Most A couple mid-tier QBs. Matt Ryan: Completion Percentage: 6thTD Percentage: 11thINT Percentage: 11thQuarterback Rating: 9thYards/Attempt: 14thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 10thQB Wins: 4thQB Losses: 5th most Andy Dalton: Completion Percentage: 14thTD Percentage: 15thINT Percentage: 23rdQuarterback Rating: 13thYards/Attempt: 19thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 16thQB Wins: 13thQB Losses: 19th most And now for some of the lower tiers. Flacco: Completion Percentage: 19thTD Percentage: 30thINT Percentage: 17thQuarterback Rating: 28thYards/Attempt: 31stAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 28thQB Wins: 6thQB Losses: 9th most Cutler: Completion Percentage: 18thTD Percentage: 12thINT Percentage: 39thQuarterback Rating: 27thYards/Attempt: 24thAdjusted Net Yards/Pass Attempt: 30thQB Wins: 17thQB Losses: 7th most QBs definitely have some outliers for stats, and any one statistic, but when you look at a bunch of them, you can see much clearer pictures of where a QB ranks overall. Even looking at some advanced metrics, Stafford has never finished higher than 10th in DVOA for a single season, and in last year's impressive season, he was merely 14th. It seems like quite the overpay. The flip side of this is that in 2018, Cousins, Bradford, Winston, and Mariotta will all have the ability to top it (and I imagine at least two of them will), and by the end of the 2020 season, all but 4 of the current starting QBs will need new contracts that will push Stafford's deal back toward the middle of the pack. But it will be one of the top QB contracts over the next 3 seasons. And the other side - the Lions still have near $50 million in cap room for 2018, so it's not like they won't be able to do much of what they'd need. Especially since that now factors in the oversized QB contract most teams have on their cap. do you honestly not see how flawed this is? Remind me, what year was Staffords rookie season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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