1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[Golfman]

3 hours ago, Golfman said:

Barring a lot of injuries early, I think Gary will be a specialist the first third of the season at least. As the year progresses and he starts to master techniques his role could expand. 

Having said that, I'm still predicting 10 sacks from the guy this year!  Until game sixteen is in the books, I"m standing by that optimistic prediction. 

I'm a guy that was not fond of this guy pre-draft. 

 

9 minutes ago, VonKarman said:

Yeah, because you get to master techniques in a couple months.

What part of "starts to master techniques' do you not understand! It was very clear and you clearly misrepresented what I said. But hey, thanks for adding.......... nothing! 

[AlexGreen#20]

9 hours ago, Reaper said:

Im guessing we are constantly seeing new msgs about this because its the preseason and there is nothing else going on. Everyone knew he was a work in progress. We should be looking for improvements in play rather than stats. If you watch even the past 3 games you see marked improvement especially in his containment. I am assuming that they are giving him specific things to focus on and to recognize. He is very young and raw he will need some time to put all of these things together. From what I understand he has two pass rush moves and one of them is devistating however I have not seen any attempted really in the games. Perhaps when the lights are on he has too much going on to put a sequence together to setup and perform a rush move and if thats the case when the game slows down a bit he should be ok. I am with a lot of guys on here that this was a pick on potential from day one. I expect to see him get 4-6 sacks in situational rushes this season and then next year should be a jump.

In what way?

He's still getting cut down regularly. 

[SSG]

On 8/24/2019 at 4:10 PM, Packerraymond said:

Well it makes sense now seeing as your a Michigan fan. They didn't do a good job with Gary. If he went down South, I bet we're talking about a guy who went top 3. Look at what Clemson got out of Ferrell and Wilkins, can you imagine of Gary went there? Damn.

The idea that every high prospect that goes down south develops into top 3 draft pick is absurd.  I'd bet that that's the type of optimism you reserve for only Packer prospects. 

How many 295 lb DTs has Clemson developed into elite OLBs?  I can imagine that Gary had done had he accepted the money he'd been offered from Clemson..... he'd have been buried on the bench had he given the same effort we seen at Michigan.  

Not sure how anyone can talk trash about Michigan when looking at the total transformation that occurred with Winovich.  He went from a small 210 lb 3 star LB to being one of the best pass rushers in college football.  If Gary had 10% the work ethic or heart that Winovich had this conversation wouldn't be had.  

[PACKRULE]

9 minutes ago, SSG said:

The idea that every high prospect that goes down south develops into top 3 draft pick is absurd.  I'd bet that that's the type of optimism you reserve for only Packer prospects. 

How many 295 lb DTs has Clemson developed into elite OLBs?  I can imagine that Gary had done had he accepted the money he'd been offered from Clemson..... he'd have been buried on the bench had he given the same effort we seen at Michigan.  

Not sure how anyone can talk trash about Michigan when looking at the total transformation that occurred with Winovich.  He went from a small 210 lb 3 star LB to being one of the best pass rushers in college football.  If Gary had 10% the work ethic or heart that Winovich had this conversation wouldn't be had.  

You don’t know squat about what you are pumping out. You have been present at how many of either players work outs To suggest something so absurd it’s like most of your stuff. Real games man and a few of them if the kid does squat in 10 games then come back and promote your hindsight GM skills.  

 

[SSG]

15 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

You don’t know squat about what you are pumping out. You have been present at how many of either players work outs To suggest something so absurd it’s like most of your stuff. Real games man and a few of them if the kid does squat in 10 games then come back and promote your hindsight GM skills.  

 

I agree with one thing.  None of us really know squat.  I never suggested I was at either player's workouts.  I didn't have to be to see the massive difference in the amount of effort the put forth on the field.  Rashan Gary was a non factor for the majority of his time at Michigan.  Frequently he'd disappear so bad that you had no idea he was even on the field.  I don't think there is an objective argument to be made that Chase Winovich disappeared for long stretches.  

I understand it's preseason but I've got no reason to believe he's not going to get dominated in the regular season if he's getting stoned and rag dolled by guys who have 50/50 shots at making the roster.  Given his play at Michigan, there is IMO reason for concern after 3 preseason games.  Saying that though, being concerned doesn't mean anyone is closing the book on him. 

[MrBobGray]

The tenor of this whole discussion is weird to me.  I feel like the situation is pretty obvious, so I'm kinda surprised at the contention.  Personally speaking, I'd say Gary doesn't look great at the moment but that shouldn't have been a surprise either.  He had a long way to go in a number of areas coming out and everybody knew it; there's a reason he went 12th and not 1st.    Physically, Gary is the prototypical EDGE player for what Pettine wants in his system, but all of what he has won't play until he fixes his flaws, and that's totally fine.  The team isn't dependent on him, Smith/Smith/Fackrell is a decent enough rotation if he peaks at edge setter and free man on stunts this season.   

The team knew all this.  He looks like exactly the player Green Bay expected to get; he plays hard, he's absurdly quick and huge, and he plays like a freshman in college.  It's been one off-season so far, not even the season itself yet.  He's going to get 16 games to practice what I have no doubt Mike Smith is on him 24/7 about.  How much he progresses as the season goes on and then into season two will set the tone of his career, not how he does in a few preseason games. 

I'll be honest I blame this on the camp reporters.  They were so breathless in their praise of him that I think expectations were waaaaaay too high for the time of year.  It happens to everyone at some point, but probably time to just settle back on what we all knew; he has game-breaking talent, but it's going to be a week to week thing how much of it he can utilize.  

[vegas492]

On 8/24/2019 at 10:54 AM, Rainmaker90 said:

This is absolutely incredible. People are concerned that a rookie doesn’t have a sack in three preseason games . 

 

And then when he has good reps they pick it apart.

 

Its like they expect Gary to be an all-pro year one ! Hate to break it to you guys, he’s not. That doesn’t mean he’s not gonna be a heck of a player for us this year. 

Uh.  I don't think he's going to be "a heck of a player for us this year".

I think he's going to be good depth.

I'd saddle up to the bar and take 4 sacks from him and 20 pressures right now.  To me, that isn't a heck of a player, but a solid first year for a young, raw kid.

And that is what Gary is right now.  Young and raw.  I really want to dog pile on him because I wasn't an initial fan of the pick.  But I can't.  He's not been lazy.  He's worked his tail off to get into better shape.  We see the power, we see the explosion.  We read about his good reps in camp.  And?????  I expect it to show up in pre-season.  And it has not.

Back of my head, I knew it would take time with him.  And time he has with two Smiths and Fackrell on the roster.  But he's gotta improve every day of practice for this next year in order to be a "heck of a player for us" next year.  Which is when we will need him more.

Despite me being against Gary initially, I will pound the table for patience regarding this kid.  You hope to not have to have patience with a pick that high, but I think we all knew it.  

And please don't tell me about Burns' pre-season.  #1, it'll hurt because I really liked him.  #2, because it is still just pre-season.  #3, because Burns too was a project and would take time.

[vegas492]

On 8/24/2019 at 2:27 PM, SSG said:

Rashan Gary was a 295 lb DT when he came to Michigan.... He came to Michigan as a physical size/ speed combo freak and he left as even a more physical specimen.  They moved him up and down their defensive front to find the best fit and he didn't dominate in anyone of them.

I'm not surprised by anything.  He never consistently showed that he was a dominate edge rusher while at Michigan.  Not uninformed at all.  I'm a life long Michigan fan and a former season ticket holder that watched every snap of his college career.  The difference is I'm not going to sugar coat it because he's now a Packer.  I'm a big Rashan Gary fan but I'm concerned that he's not ever going to be anything more than a mediocre football player.  Personally, I think he's a much better fit for the defensive line than he is the edge.

 

Look.  You've watched him a lot, lot longer and more in depth than I ever will...MIchigan days.

I've got one simple question for you, is he physically tough enough and mentally tough enough to play inside on the defensive line?  Please explain your answer.

I only watched a little bit of him.  I thought he ran hot/cold, like I wouldn't say he was physically tough, nor would I say that he was soft.  It was odd.  Some guys like the dirty work inside, I didn't come away feeling that he did.  And I don't mean that as a slight on him at all.  I think most guys would get sick and tired of being doubled all game every game.

[vegas492]

On 8/25/2019 at 3:52 AM, ThatJerkDave said:

 

 

So far, who has been the most impressive of the rookies in the preseason? Hollman? Summers, just based on volume? So far, this draft class hasn't been lighting the league on fire.

I don't know about the board, but Keke has really impressed me.  Like super impressed me.

[CWood21]

10 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

The tenor of this whole discussion is weird to me.  I feel like the situation is pretty obvious, so I'm kinda surprised at the contention.  Personally speaking, I'd say Gary doesn't look great at the moment but that shouldn't have been a surprise either.  He had a long way to go in a number of areas coming out and everybody knew it; there's a reason he went 12th and not 1st.    Physically, Gary is the prototypical EDGE player for what Pettine wants in his system, but all of what he has won't play until he fixes his flaws, and that's totally fine.  The team isn't dependent on him, Smith/Smith/Fackrell is a decent enough rotation if he peaks at edge setter and free man on stunts this season.   

The team knew all this.  He looks like exactly the player Green Bay expected to get; he plays hard, he's absurdly quick and huge, and he plays like a freshman in college.  It's been one off-season so far, not even the season itself yet.  He's going to get 16 games to practice what I have no doubt Mike Smith is on him 24/7 about.  How much he progresses as the season goes on and then into season two will set the tone of his career, not how he does in a few preseason games. 

I'll be honest I blame this on the camp reporters.  They were so breathless in their praise of him that I think expectations were waaaaaay too high for the time of year.  It happens to everyone at some point, but probably time to just settle back on what we all knew; he has game-breaking talent, but it's going to be a week to week thing how much of it he can utilize.  

It's not that he hasn't looked great, it's not like he's looked horrible.  He's a rookie.  You're going to get the ups and downs from him.  That's expected.

[Rainmaker90]

2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Uh.  I don't think he's going to be "a heck of a player for us this year".

I think he's going to be good depth.

I'd saddle up to the bar and take 4 sacks from him and 20 pressures right now.  To me, that isn't a heck of a player, but a solid first year for a young, raw kid.

And that is what Gary is right now.  Young and raw.  I really want to dog pile on him because I wasn't an initial fan of the pick.  But I can't.  He's not been lazy.  He's worked his tail off to get into better shape.  We see the power, we see the explosion.  We read about his good reps in camp.  And?????  I expect it to show up in pre-season.  And it has not.

Back of my head, I knew it would take time with him.  And time he has with two Smiths and Fackrell on the roster.  But he's gotta improve every day of practice for this next year in order to be a "heck of a player for us" next year.  Which is when we will need him more.

Despite me being against Gary initially, I will pound the table for patience regarding this kid.  You hope to not have to have patience with a pick that high, but I think we all knew it.  

And please don't tell me about Burns' pre-season.  #1, it'll hurt because I really liked him.  #2, because it is still just pre-season.  #3, because Burns too was a project and would take time.

Just because he doesn’t have the stats to back it up, doesnt mean he hasn’t shown flashes. I expect him to get good pressures but may have trouble getting home.

[Uffdaswede]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

It's not that he hasn't looked great, it's not like he's looked horrible.  He's a rookie.  You're going to get the ups and downs from him.  That's expected.

Agreed. A lot has been made of his zero stats.

It occurs to me that I do not know how those who keep stats measure quarterback pressures. How on earth do you distinguish between a "pressure" and a quarterback getting the ball out quickly as a planned response to a protection breakdown?

A coverage sack is easily understood--the quarterback has nowhere to go with the ball due to excellent coverage and nowhere to run as the pocket collapses. Can excellent coverage also lead to a "pressure" that forces him to throw the ball away after four or five seconds of waiting for receivers to get open.

The term is thrown around so much and it is so easy to understand that I had never wondered before how you would describe a situation that is or isn't a quarterback pressure.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Uffdaswede

[PACKRULE]

It's interesting in most of the PS thus far every pass play the ball has come out so fast no one has a chance to get home period. We thought we had Webb a few times and Jackson a couple times but not even close. So 2 of the QB's he played ran quite a bit, heck in the run game even they seemed to run away form Gary more then not. I have watched every snap of every game thus far and really it's not like he has had chances to get home no one has.

Most folks that are beating on the kid and the pick are not acknowledging any of this. Just back to the same old crap he didn't produce in college when he actually did just not to everyones liking. To many posters only check the stat line and that is where they make their decisions on whether a player is successful or not. In a team game there are often guys that show up in the game but not on the stat sheet.

Heck one poster above noted that his work ethic sucks compared to that of other players from MI. Just lots of silly stuff at this time of the year. Not at your just noting my thoughts in response to you. I am not saying Gary will be all world but he clearly has skills looking at this preseason and his stat line compared to what and who he played is senseless.

[ReadyToThump]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I don't know about the board, but Keke has really impressed me.  Like super impressed me.

He's looked great, very distruptive, his hand usage is vet-like...very excited about him. Both him and Jenkins have quite easily stood out the most among our rookie class so far imo. 

[HighCalebR]

I watched more Keke cut ups than any other guy this year. I didnt see him getting love anywhere and I couldnt see why not. Now he definitely hasnt done anything yet but I'm glad hes flashing a bit. Need someone to push Lowry.

Edited August 26, 2019 by HighCalebR