1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

[ThatJerkDave]

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So I'm on board with the Gary pick, but I'll open the challenge. I just posted his 2018 games on the last page. 

Using examples from the last page, show me why we should be happy with this pick?

From my non-expert eyes I saw:

Strength is there to be seen.  He holds up pretty well in the run game most of the time.

Pursuit speed is also there.  Not many QBs and RBs were really running away from him (Either the Maryland, or Notre Dame QB was real quick, I don't recall which and could get away)

I didn't see as many double teams as people have claimed.  And I don't recall any on pass plays that weren't a RB helping out.

He seems slow at the snap sometimes.  I saw multiple instances where Gary looked like the last guy out of his stance at the snap.  This is the most concerning to me.

 

Overall, I see all of the tools needed.  In his interviews he seems to be willing to learn and do the work to get better.  I think he will need to do a lot of work, and I will be surprised if he has instant impact this season.  

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, packfanfb said:

Let's not forget the film on Gary is him at 19 and 20 years old. The guy didn't turn 21 until his college career ended. 

Now, Burns was out there producing at the same age, but the Packers simply didn't favor him scheme wise over Gary due to his weight/frame, that's pretty clear.

Conversely, Wilkins played his entire 2018 season at 22 years old and turned 23 in December. Guy is a few months younger than Clark. 

At the end of the day, the perfect play would have probably been to trade back to 15 with Wash where Gary probably still would have been waiting and you could have picked up an extra 3rd, hell even an extra 4th knowing you're trying to move up from 30 later on. My guess, however is that Wash wasn't selling and felt confident their man, Haskins would be there at 15. 

Gute liked Gary and didn't want to move back too far so he stayed put and pulled the trigger. I'm fine with the pick, moreso because I wasnt interested in guys like Wilkins or Dillard. With Oliver and Bush off the board at 9 and 10, it was Burns, Gary or trade back. The trade probably wasn't there and I get the logical reason why they passed on Burns and took Gary instead. 

The age is actually a great point I hadn't thought much of. Most of your Big 10 lineman like the Badgers and Buckeyes are around Wilkins' age too. He'll be facing the same type of age disadvantage in the league for a bit but with an NFL S&C it won't matter as much. 

Still hard to believe Clark is so young. What a boom that late 1st pick turned out to be.

[Leader]

49 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I will be surprised if he has instant impact this season.  

Instant impact is a subjective maybe - but I see no reason he wont be in the rotations and producing. The might not be the Hope Diamond yet but he clearly has the tools and only way I could see him being a detriment is if he gets caught dropping back into coverage early on - but thats not likely to happen IMO. He's a "attack forward" player and I think he's got the strength and speed to do just that. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Leader

[ThatJerkDave]

3 hours ago, Leader said:

Instant impact is a subjective maybe - but I see no reason he wont be in the rotations and producing. The might not be the Hope Diamond yet but he clearly has the tools and only way I could see him being a detriment is if he gets caught dropping back into coverage early on - but thats not likely to happen IMO. He's a "attack forward" player and I think he's got the strength and speed to do just that. 

I probably could have worded that better.  I think he will be in a rotation.  I think he will also have his moments.  I don't think he can come in right now and replace Clay Matthews' 700+ snaps and be an effective player.  Luckily for us, he won't have to this season; and if he does, we are either ravaged by injuries or he is amazing. 

[SAM]

I just hope Gary dosn't end up needing surgery on his shoulder half way through the season. 

[thrILL!]

2 hours ago, SAM said:

I just hope Gary dosn't end up needing surgery on his shoulder half way through the season. 

Our team doctor is Leo Spaceman.  No need to worry. 

[AlexGreen#20]

10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

From my non-expert eyes I saw:

Strength is there to be seen.  He holds up pretty well in the run game most of the time.

Pursuit speed is also there.  Not many QBs and RBs were really running away from him (Either the Maryland, or Notre Dame QB was real quick, I don't recall which and could get away)

I didn't see as many double teams as people have claimed.  And I don't recall any on pass plays that weren't a RB helping out.

He seems slow at the snap sometimes.  I saw multiple instances where Gary looked like the last guy out of his stance at the snap.  This is the most concerning to me.

 

Overall, I see all of the tools needed.  In his interviews he seems to be willing to learn and do the work to get better.  I think he will need to do a lot of work, and I will be surprised if he has instant impact this season.  

That was not the request made. Based on the game tape, as in actual on field production, why are we happy?

[spilltray]

20 hours ago, squire12 said:

Did he win many 1 v 1 in college?

The videos that @AlexGreen#20 posted looked like some full games and I don't recall seeing many 1 v 1 pass rush wins.

There weren't that many opportunities. He played well snap to snap, but he wasn't used as an edge really so we will have to see. He played well with what he was supposed to do, and that's good enough for me.

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That was not the request made. Based on the game tape, as in actual on field production, why are we happy?

I guess we shouldn't be over the moon for Gary at this point.  He has work to do, but the tape shows that he displays a lot of the athletic ability in game that he produced for workouts.  I think he can be as good as Nick Perry for 6-7 million less and still develop into a better player.  But his development depends on his work ethic and coaching.  We got a really good piece of clay.  Are we going to be Patrick Swayze in Ghost and make a nice pot, or are we going to be me in first grade art class and make a crappy ashtray?

[craig]

Many of the early responses to Gary were "boom or bust", and "high ceiling-low floor" type response.   I don't agree with that view. 

I expect he'll play, and be an "I-rarely-notice-him guy" as a rookie.  His size/strength was exceptional in college, but he won't win many rookie-season pass-rush plays based on size/strength and combine-athleticism.  I expect he'll be a good run-contain guy who may happen into a couple of sacks, but don't expect much impact in the pass-rush game.  Likewise I don't expect he'll be respected enough to be drawing double teams as a rookie; so I don't expect the "he's-not-getting-sacks/stats-but-he's-setting-up-everybody-else" value to translate as a rookie.  

Not the same and he'll play inside more, but I kind of anticipate a Perry-like guy qualitatively.  Strength and set-the-edge run-defense, an occasional sack, but not enough initial quickness, or arc-speed, to provide major impact in terms of pass-rush.  At least as a rookie.

[vegas492]

4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

That was not the request made. Based on the game tape, as in actual on field production, why are we happy?

If you want to be happy you will not find it in the tape.  It simply isn't there as you would want it to be concerning an athlete like Gary.

If you want to be happy, you gotta place that at the feet of Gute and his staff.  You know, the guys who are paid to evaluate guys like Gary.  Guys who have had conversations for months about who to draft where and when.  Guys who made a draft day trade down last year, then trade up for a corner that wasn't on our radar over here at this site.  A corner who is flat out a playmaker who didn't quite "measure up" to a perceived standard that we thought GB had.

If you want to be happy about the pick, point to this year's free agency.  With two Smith's, Gary doesn't have to be a savior at EDGE.  He just needs to do his part, learn and grow.

Place your happiness and trust in the GM.  

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

If you want to be happy you will not find it in the tape.  It simply isn't there as you would want it to be concerning an athlete like Gary.

If you want to be happy, you gotta place that at the feet of Gute and his staff.  You know, the guys who are paid to evaluate guys like Gary.  Guys who have had conversations for months about who to draft where and when.  Guys who made a draft day trade down last year, then trade up for a corner that wasn't on our radar over here at this site.  A corner who is flat out a playmaker who didn't quite "measure up" to a perceived standard that we thought GB had.

If you want to be happy about the pick, point to this year's free agency.  With two Smith's, Gary doesn't have to be a savior at EDGE.  He just needs to do his part, learn and grow.

Place your happiness and trust in the GM.  

So everybody is over the moon happy about a pick that nobody can point to any actual football plays explaining why we should be so excited? 

Just want to be clear that where we're at with this thing?

[fistfullofbeer]

You draft players based on potential. i.e Not what they have done so far but what they will do from now on. College production is a measurable stat. Just like the combine numbers. The confidence one gets from interviewing the prospects is largely subjective but plays a big role too. The only thing with College production is that you have a larger sample size for measuring success. But again that is the success the player had in college. Every player is put in a different position. Different conferences. Different quality of teammates. There are a few college players with good production who fail to produce at the NFL level. The reverse is true as well.

I do not follow the NFL draft as closely as a lot of you guys. My lack of knowledge in prospects is limited because I only watch a few college games a year as well. However, I am big on the NHL draft and follow that very closely every year. I have seen my team draft players in the first round which no one on my hockey forums expected to be drafted. Sometimes they work out and become stars. Sometimes they don't. Most of the times they end up being good players and not stars though. There is really no guarantee in the draft.

Not making excuses here for Gary's lack of college production. But I am pretty sure that the coaches, scouts and management saw something in him to draft him where they did. Only time will tell how it works out.

 

TLDR: No one here can predict if Gary works out. We took a chance based on skill/potential. Lets hope it works out.

[{Family Ghost}]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So everybody is over the moon happy about a pick that nobody can point to any actual football plays explaining why we should be so excited? 

Just want to be clear that where we're at with this thing?

He sucks ... total bust

[AlexGreen#20]

44 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

He sucks ... total bust

Not what I said