Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[RavensfanRD]

11 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

When Brock cashes in, he should lose to push the next future star.

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but the WWE doesn't like doing smart things, haha

[FinneasGage]

 

this is probably in my top 10 favorite matches of all-time 

Edited May 29, 2019 by FinneasGage

[PARROTHEAD]

I thought SD had something decent going with AJ, Kofi, DB and all were running storylines at the top.

Now it feels exactly like Raw has been the past couple years. Not saying its Roman or anything like that. Just the entire show feels like its lost an element it once had and have picked up bad habits. Like theyve intentionally made it to feel like Raw Light. But it could be because Road Dogg and a couple others have left attributing to that feeling of something is missing.

[wgbeethree]

Check out Moxley on Talk Is Jericho. Pretty interesting stuff. Nothing groundbreaking but pretty much confirming exactly what most people think is going on backstage. 

 

[Fresh Prince]

25 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

Check out Moxley on Talk Is Jericho. Pretty interesting stuff. Nothing groundbreaking but pretty much confirming exactly what most people think is going on backstage. 

 

It’ll deff change once Trips is involved. Once XFL comes back, that should have all of Vince’s attention.

[buddy_z34]

12 hours ago, Fresh Prince said:

It’ll deff change once Trips is involved. Once XFL comes back, that should have all of Vince’s attention.

Only for it to fail once again. Itll probably last the season since Vince is bankrolling it but after that he'll be right back on top of things with the E which is bad for wrestling fans

[RavensfanRD]

"Haha, yeah, that's good shiiieeet!" - Vince

Had me on the floor dying. Moxley gotta find his chill, that was too funny. His interview sounded like a repeat of CM Punk.

- He hated coming to work

- He was working injured

- He didn't have a ton of freedom to do what he liked

Pretty wild how that goes, but its hard to argue with a billionaire.

[Superman(DH23)]

Based on the Moxley interview, reports of a riff backstage between Paul and Vince, the complaints of Sasha and Harper, it's fair to say at this point Vince is the problem.  I think what has been going on TV lately is the shining example of everything that's wrong.  Talent is incredible, and the inring product is probably the best it's ever been, but the storylines are trash with the rare exception (Kofi v DB).  They keep rehashing the same thing over and over bc it worked 20 years ago.  Hopefully AEW can find some success and force Vince to reevaluate

[Fresh Prince]

9 hours ago, buddy_z34 said:

Only for it to fail once again. Itll probably last the season since Vince is bankrolling it but after that he'll be right back on top of things with the E which is bad for wrestling fans

They say there’s enough money to last 3 seasons.

[PARROTHEAD]

8 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

 Talent is incredible, and the inring product is probably the best it's ever been,

I agree with you except for that.

Its WWE. Look at Dustin stealing the show at 50+ years old a few nights back. When the past 20+ years weve seen nothing remotely close to that level from him while in WWE. I dont see where "most talent theres ever been" can be said about WWEs (excluding NXT) product when its never showcased. And guys leave to put on great matches. Or are like AJ and were putting on 5* matches to signing with WWE and being thankful for hitting a 4* one. 2015 Dustin and Cody had a match at Fastlane and both HATED the match with a passion it seems from Dustins latest interview. When they were allowed to do a match their way in AEW. Then we saw what they could do this week when allowed that freedom. And I say it goes for all the wrestlers, inside the ring and out.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by PARROTHEAD

[Dr LBC]

Finally got a chance to watch Double or Nothing in a single sitdown as opposed to one match here, one match there and I'll be honest there were as many misses as there were hits and it doesn't actually make me feel great for them having long-term success unless certain people work more independently of others involved in the higher-ups of the company.

Excalibur needs to go.  Look, I was as big a fan of any of the whole bunch of Fire Ant, Excalibur, Hallowicked, you name it guys that Mike Quackenbush used to book because they could go in the ring, but were under a mask for a reason and not because they were Sami Zayn/El Generico who used the mask to magnify his own natural charisma.  A casual person or someone coming back to watching pro wrestling on TV after being chased away 5 or more years ago by Vince is going to take one look at Excalibur behind the table in his mask and not take him seriously in the slightest.  And the commentators are the guys who are supposed to get you hype for the what of the show is yet to come to keep you from changing the channel.  This isn't like switching on Lucha Underground and being like, "Oh crap!  That's Vampiro!  I recognize him from WCW or AAA," which is akin to tuning into some of the MMA programming where you see the commentators as it's like "Oh hey, that's Pat Miletich (any of the stuffs on AXS TV) or Frank Shamrock/Bas Rutten (when Strikeforce was still a thing); they actually have credibility to speak on this stuff."  Also, and this goes for WWE too, the three-man commentary stuff needs to go altogether.  It's so obvious it's paint be numbers these days with everyone trying to get their bits in that you don't actually get much of any play-by-play call anymore which basically sends the message that what's going on in the ring really doesn't matter.

The Good:

- Cody/Dustin!!!  I'm pretty sure Dustin either gigged wrong or got some of his color the hard way, unintentionally, but that was a match with emotion behind it and it was obvious.  I mention emotion because compare that to the relative blassez spotfest that was the Bucks vs Lucha Bros (and I'm a massive Pentagon fan, I know full well what he's capable of in terms of ring psychology) and it's night and day.  Matt and Nick (and we know they're capable of doing it) didn't give enough to their opponents in this match, and they did what I was afraid they were going to do, which was put themselves over when they didn't need to (and I'd argue shouldn't have gone over because, again, with their size and look, to a casual fan they should be climbing uphill not looking down at competition).

- MJF.  Flat out, best heel in the business right now.  He has the natural heel factor to him (where he legitimately makes you want to reach through the TV and slap him) in a way I haven't seen since Steve Corino.  He stole the show at any given opportunity, even when they did him dirty (sorry, they did, by bringing out Luke Perry's kid and Jimmy Havoc to join in on the beatdown along with Hangman Page - when Page and MJF were getting exactly the kind of heat you can make good money off of on their own).  I legit popped for the "Lieutenant Dan" bit during the battle royal, which was one of the few highlights of the BR if I'm being honest.

- SCU continue to be the most undercelebrated wrestlers on the indy circuit - and they get plenty of recognition.  I'll forever believe that Christopher Daniels is the one guy that Vince should kick himself for ever letting get away from a developmental contract, he genuinely could have had another Shawn on his hands (and I really don't feel like I'm going all that hyperbolic in that statement - dude does it all and does it consistently for a long time and I've always genuinely felt he's the more talented in the pairing of him and AJ).

The Mixed Bag:

- The Women's match:  Some good, some bad.  Commentary was crap - Ali either can't promo period or struggles to ad lib with the character she's created.  And that character doesn't belong on commentary because if you're going to have an even remotely heel commentator they should be absolutely burying her over and over again as if Sandow were addressing Eugene - because her character damn near begs for that to happen.  Kong still has it and does more with nonverbals than most of the women in the industry can outside of Tessa Blanchard and a few others.  Nyla Rose is a BEAST.  Strap a rocket to her butt and let it take off.  That said, I feel like they did a disservice putting both of them in the same match because there are only so many "take out the big wrestler" spots you can do before it just feels contrived and actually hurts the credibility of the talent.  This was one of those instances (and Cody and the Bucks do this a lot, to their own detriment I feel, and did it a lot on this show) where they overbooked just to get more names on the card.  Either you put Kong in there as the charismatic monster who casual fans might/should recognize from TNA or her brief run as Kharma in WWE or you put Nyla in there and let her get enough of a monster shine with Britt managing to sneak out the back door against her to nick a win but creating the want to see the two of them one-on-one in the near future.

- The Six Woman match: Work-rate wise, good match.  This isn't going to go over with the casual TV watching wrestling fan though.  Sorry.  I can appreciate it for what it is, but it doesn't get people invested.

The Bad:

- The Casino Battle Royal: First off, until JR got there (and even when he was there he was the only good part of it) the commentary was abysmal.  MJF is a highlight.  Adam Page did well to get himself over.  Ty/Sean would have likely been more hit with fewer misses if he wasn't made to look like a goober for being the "nice guy."  Sorry, not sorry, he should have had more self-respect if he wants to actually be more in AEW than he was in WWE than to agree to the spot where Dustin Thomas eliminates him after he aids Thomas in getting MJF's goad.  I know some people here are Joey Janela fans and the guy has personality, but he can work to save his life (sorry/not sorry again, the dude is all high-spot and no transition - Joey Ryan has a gimmick that certain people in the industry have a very defensible gripe against, but it sells and people do come to see it, but at least he's a quality worker outside of the gimmicky stuff, Janela ain't).  Ace Romero could be huge for them, but save for the bit with Marko Stunt, they gave him next to no shine for being the biggest man in the battle royal.  Speaking of Marko... please stop booking him on televise stuff.  It does more harm to your product than good - especially if you're courting casual wrestling fans.  David Arquette (I repeat... David freakin' Arquette!) had a more believable physique than Marko does - and Marko has already hurt himself once because he's careless in his work (I honestly feel like the only reason he hasn't hurt someone he's worked with is because he doesn't have to size to actually screw up his opponent's movements).  At least with a guy like Ariel Dominguez in MLW he's got actual amateur credentials and a strong physique despite diminutive size, so he can be pushed as a small but legitimate shooter, not unlike Little Guido was.  And then we get to Orange Cassidy - and this includes the video above from Finneus - this smug crap is out and out stupid and it's going to hurt their product 10x more than it does help it.  Yes, people by and large are aware that pro wrestling is scripted, that doesn't mean you beat people over the head with that stuff.

It also goes to a greater theme on the night (again this is where I fault commentary more than anyone but it's also one the people booking the show because the sign off on this) - if your goal is to attract casual fans and build attractions that will bring people back to watch your product, don't book a show that's 75% an indy super-card and then pretend like people should just know who the hell all these people are.  Too much of the whole show in general felt like Cody and the Bucks trying to give as many of their buddies as possible a good payday.

- Kenny Omega.  Sorry, not sorry again and I'm sure I'll get raked over the coals by some of you for this.  I can get into some of Kenny's matches, depending on the opponent, but that often times has more to do with his opponent than him.  He can brawl to save his life.  He has some very Ultimate Warrior vibes to him (facials, fire up, inability to throw a good working punch to save his life, etc.) and I can't take his promos seriously because they just flat out feel fake and contrived - and like he's purposely overacting in order to make them feel fake and contrived.  Cody, I feel, shouldn't have a problem getting over with casual fans (i.e. folks that haven't been following him in New Japan and on the indies).  Same with Adam Page, MJF, Moxley (who looks like he finally cares again), Darby Allin (hasn't debuted, but he knows how to connect and get people invested in his character and matches), Pac (if he decides to stay), and Daniels and Kazarian.  I'm not so confident Kenny's shtick is going to get over with a casual wrestling fans - who is more likely to see him as a parody/satire (to a casual fan, he's going to come off as a heel) in the same vein as like a Disco Inferno or Heidenreich/Snitsky.  I really have trouble seeing how he's going to make casual fans actually care about him as a babyface unless they let Moxley play the heel and just utterly destroy him multiple times over so that Kenny can play the come-from-behind bit (and even then, if he overacts like he tends to do, he can kill that heat pretty damn quick). 

It was a good show.  Far from the homerun they needed to hit, but still there are foundational blocks that can build from.  But all-in-all it came off like a show that cared more about paying fan-service to the fans they already had and who were going to mark out for the show regardless than it did to actually work to generate new interest and to sink the bit into new/casual fans who weren't as familiar with the majority of the talent on the card.  To that last end, the cost was prohibitive (and honestly probably stupid) to trying to bring in new fans too.  Granted, there's the obvious knowledge that at some point their live stream is going to be pirated and streamed out for free, but very few casual fans that aren't already huge fans of a number of the talent on the card are going to shell out $50 for a PPV.

[FinneasGage]

32 minutes ago, The LBC said:

I'll forever believe that Christopher Daniels is the one guy that Vince should kick himself for ever letting get away from a developmental contract

Daniels is in my top 10 all-time. When TNA was solid, he was my favorite part of the promotion.

[FinneasGage]

37 minutes ago, The LBC said:

And then we get to Orange Cassidy - and this includes the video above from Finneus - this smug crap is out and out stupid and it's going to hurt their product 10x more than it does help it.

wooooow. no bull****, every ref & joey ryan being shot by cop's gun and then river monster jumping out of nowhere to take the bullet for OC, followed by a random *** robot coming out to stop the madness... may just be the best ending to a match i've seen this year aside from Cody/Dustin.

[FinneasGage]

40 minutes ago, The LBC said:

Kenny Omega

agree 100% w/ your take on omega. loved some of his NJW matches i watched, but i think he's one of the more overrated guy's out there & i really don't get hyped to see him work. they were kinda hyping up Jungle Boy on the Being the Elite series too, but he's got some of the worst matches I've ever seen tbh 

[Dr LBC]

10 hours ago, FinneasGage said:

wooooow. no bull****, every ref & joey ryan being shot by cop's gun and then river monster jumping out of nowhere to take the bullet for OC, followed by a random *** robot coming out to stop the madness... may just be the best ending to a match i've seen this year aside from Cody/Dustin.

It legitimately makes fun of the industry it's purporting to represent.  It's saying, "Hey, you know it's fake.  I know it's fake.  So we're just going to back a loaded semi-truck with 'This is fake!" written on the trailer over it... and then pull forward over it... then back up... then pull forward."  I have no issues with some modernization of professional wrestling.  Even as recently as 25 years ago, Orange wouldn't have made it out of a dressing room with two functioning legs if he pulled this crap.  You want to do crazy crap?  No problem.  Don't put it in the ring and try to present it as serious in the same way you do other actual matches on your card.