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Gmen

Hypothetical : Jones vs. Haskins

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There has been a lot of outrage over the Giants selection of Daniel Jones at #6 overall. He has the looks of a franchise quarterback - good size, athleticism, mechanics, intelligence, toughness, character. However, his college production suggests he was overdrafted. Dwayne Haskins is kind of the opposite. Looks pudgy, unathletic, slow footed, but he does have a great arm his college production was record breaking in just one season. 

Ohio State had 8 players drafted in this draft in addition to Haskins, including two of his talented receivers on day two. Additionally, many Ohio State underclassmen will also be drafted in future years. Bottom line is Haskins played with a lot of talent.

Duke had 1 other player drafted. It’s been well documented that Jones’ receivers dropped 36 passes last year, and his offensive line was a turnstile. Duke is far from a football powerhouse and most of their players will not be playing football professionally. Zion Williamson unfortunately decided to focus only on basketball.

So here is the hypothetical - What if Jones played at Ohio State, and Haskins played at Duke? How would their careers have turned out? How would it affect their draft position? Would everyone be so outraged at the Giants selection?

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Haskins would have had Cutcliffe and Jones would not. Jones doesn’t go first round (more around where Grier went) but Haskins goes 6th.

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I think the fact that Jones "looks the part" to an old white guy in Gettleman just means that if he showcased some of his talent while at OSU, he'd go with the Giants at #6.

Haskins like goes in the 3rd at earliest.

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Haskins would get ignored in the top 3 rounds.

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In this scenario, I have to assume that Daniel Jones only stays buried in the OSU depth chart without Cutcliffe developing him, probably never even starts at QB.

Meanwhile, Haskins lights up Duke with the quality QB coaching, and even though they don't win that many more games than Duke did with Jones, they're slightly more competitive, and Haskins becomes a three year starter, declaring as a Junior and getting drafted second overall, probably by the Giants when they trade up for him.

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I think Jones would have ripped it up at OSU. I like Daniel Jones. Just not as much as Haskins. Jones is a huge question mark because his skills were useless with his useless supporting cast. It wouldn’t be worth the gamble for me and I would have gone Haskins every time. I don’t HATE the pick for the Giants honestly...I just think they’ll want that one back in hindsight. Daniel Jones will be a long-term starter; I just don’t see him being better than Haskins. 

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Posted (edited)

Well if Jones & Haskins switches spots, then Haskins gets 3 full seasons as a starter before coming out.  The only blemish Haskins has from his OSU time is that he had 1 year of tape, so it wasn't clear how challenged he was.  Honestly, he'd probably have been Gruden's pick at 1.4 at worst if he had 3 years of starter tape like 2018 that's as good in the throwing skills vs. D's that were better than his O, or he'd be a late-round pick if facing those D's on bad O's exposes weaknesses we can't see yet.  

You give Jones in OSU, he'd probably still be behind the starting QB's until this year, given that it took a while for him to get his deep ball skills squared away.   I'd guess he'd end up as a late 2nd-3rd round pick with only 1 year of tape. 

Edited by Broncofan

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Posted (edited)

I don’t think Jones would be available at #6 if he played with the same talent Haskins had at OSU. Thanks to  parity in the NFL, we will see how these guys look when circumstances are more even. I’ll bet we see a head to head matchup on December 22nd.

I feel like Jones is better equipped to handle the NFL than Haskins. He faced much more adversity, and he has more of the attributes you want in an NFL quarterback. I’m particularly excited about the athleticism. I saw a stat that Jones had 190 yards rushing in a single game in college, Eli had 185 total in college. His athleticism can extend plays, and with bootlegs we can cover up some pass blocking weaknesses. Not something I expect you’ll see from Haskins

Edited by Gmen

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30 minutes ago, Gmen said:

I feel like Jones is better equipped to handle the NFL than Haskins. He faced much more adversity, and he has more of the attributes you want in an NFL quarterback.

Haskins seemed more intelligent than Jones.  Reading defenses, going through progressions, moving safeties to create a throwing window, etc...  Definitely expect to see Haskins starting at QB for the Skins sooner rather than later, while with Jones it might be 2-3 years till he sees the field...

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6 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Haskins seemed more intelligent than Jones.  Reading defenses, going through progressions, moving safeties to create a throwing window, etc...  Definitely expect to see Haskins starting at QB for the Skins sooner rather than later, while with Jones it might be 2-3 years till he sees the field...

Jones was recruited by Harvard, Yale, and made a verbal commitment to Princeton before going to Duke. He had a 36 on the wonderlic. He also made protection calls at the line of scrimmage similar to what we saw Peyton and Eli do throughout their careers. I think he’ll be okay...

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4 hours ago, Daniel said:

In this scenario, I have to assume that Daniel Jones only stays buried in the OSU depth chart without Cutcliffe developing him, probably never even starts at QB.

I'd agree with this - there would be a legitimate competition between Jones and Tate Martell, and I can't say for certain that Jones wins that.

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12 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Jones was recruited by Harvard, Yale, and made a verbal commitment to Princeton before going to Duke. He had a 36 on the wonderlic. He also made protection calls at the line of scrimmage similar to what we saw Peyton and Eli do throughout their careers. I think he’ll be okay...

I think he means more intelligent when it comes to football and knowing how to work an offense.

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9 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I think he means more intelligent when it comes to football and knowing how to work an offense.

That’s not a concern with Jones. We’re reaching here 

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26 minutes ago, Gmen said:

Jones was recruited by Harvard, Yale, and made a verbal commitment to Princeton before going to Duke. He had a 36 on the wonderlic. He also made protection calls at the line of scrimmage similar to what we saw Peyton and Eli do throughout their careers. I think he’ll be okay...

Football intelligence and making decisions quickly on the field =/= Book smarts.  Baker Mayfield is smarter on the field than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Also, having watched both QBs my assessment is that I trust Haskins decision making and ability to process a defense more than Jones at the moment...

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2 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think Jones would have ripped it up at OSU. I like Daniel Jones. Just not as much as Haskins. Jones is a huge question mark because his skills were useless with his useless supporting cast. It wouldn’t be worth the gamble for me and I would have gone Haskins every time. I don’t HATE the pick for the Giants honestly...I just think they’ll want that one back in hindsight. Daniel Jones will be a long-term starter; I just don’t see him being better than Haskins. 

This is exactly how I feel about the pick. I think the Giants, Gettleman and Shurmur, put more value on some overlooked traits than everyone else does. Normally, it isn't a good thing to be that contrarian. Time will tell though. 

I think Cutcliffe is overrated. He was part of the development of Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, and that's it. Jury is still out on Jones, obviously. I think Cut is inflated by those 2 guys just being great on their own. Meanwhile, Ryan Day is one of the most brilliant offensive minds in college football. There are some games where Haskins barely had to do anything and he put up amazing numbers- look at the game winning drive against Penn State. He threw like 3 underneath passes that I could complete (on a good day) and won the game. He threw beyond the LOS 3 times, including the 2 point attempt, and all 3 were terrible passes and incomplete. His statline on that final drive was something like 60% completion for 90-something yards and a touchdown. That's the kind of offense he was in.

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