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Gmen

Hypothetical : Jones vs. Haskins

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7 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Football intelligence and making decisions quickly on the field =/= Book smarts.  Baker Mayfield is smarter on the field than Ryan Fitzpatrick.  Also, having watched both QBs my assessment is that I trust Haskins decision making and ability to process a defense more than Jones at the moment...

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/daniel-jones?id=32194a4f-4e16-5462-39a4-3b4fa743c66f

  • Quick worker through progressions
  • Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target
  • Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2019danieljones.php

  • intelligent 
  • Shows the ability to read defenses 
  • Knows where his receivers are on each play

Stop making up garbage 

Edited by Gmen

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7 minutes ago, Gmen said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/daniel-jones?id=32194a4f-4e16-5462-39a4-3b4fa743c66f

  • Quick worker through progressions
  • Early recognition of deep ball opportunities and feathers throws into the target
  • Adjusts pre-snap plan to blitz and exploits hot-read opportunities

Stop making up garbage 

Geez you sound defensive, but I get it.  I'm stating that I trust Haskins more in those situations from what I saw.  From the same article that you linked:

  • Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
  • Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
  • Average release speed slowed by small windup
  • Attempts throws into some impossible windows
  • Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
  • Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack

Wouldn't those be signs of bad decision making? And the patting/extra step/release speed makes it appear he's slow through his progressions.  But I see you're not really looking for an assessment...

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@TheVillain112 Almost all scouting reports mention his intelligence. And you think he’s going to sit on the bench for 2-3 years because he’s not smart enough? I’m just calling you out on your absolutely ridiculous statement.

Recruited by Ivy League schools, 36 on wonderlic, praised for his intelligence in scouting reports - Deemed too dumb to play for 2-3 years by @TheVillain112 SMH

If you were low key trolling, job well done sir

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4 minutes ago, Gmen said:

@TheVillain112 Almost all scouting reports mention his intelligence. And you think he’s going to sit on the bench for 2-3 years because he’s not smart enough? I’m just calling you out on your absolutely ridiculous statement.

Recruited by Ivy League schools, 36 on wonderlic, praised for his intelligence in scouting reports - Deemed too dumb to play for 2-3 years by @TheVillain112 SMH

If you were low key trolling, job well done sir

Yeah, that's not what he said at all, and you know that.

Haskins will probably see the field before Jones, but I expect to see Jones before this season ends because Eli hasn't looked like there was much left in the tank for a while.

Defend the pick if you want, but you are being super defensive about any criticism of Jones or of picking him at 6.

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14 minutes ago, Gmen said:

@TheVillain112 Almost all scouting reports mention his intelligence. And you think he’s going to sit on the bench for 2-3 years because he’s not smart enough? I’m just calling you out on your absolutely ridiculous statement.

Recruited by Ivy League schools, 36 on wonderlic, praised for his intelligence in scouting reports - Deemed too dumb to play for 2-3 years by @TheVillain112 SMH

If you were low key trolling, job well done sir

Deemed too dumb?  Man you jump to more crazy conclusions than my wife in an argument.

I don't see Daniel Jones as offering more than Eli right now (outside of physical running ability), that's why he'll sit for 2-3 years.  Haskins I was very impressed by intelligence wise from all the games, interviews, cut ups, etc... that I've watched of him.  That combined with the abysmal QB situation in Washington, is why he'll start this season, apologies if I need to spell that out for you.  If Daniel Jones was drafted by Washington, he would have more of an opportunity to start earlier but personally, I still think Haskins will be more successful to start their careers.  Especially if both are pushed into starting roles early in their careers.

Just my opinion.  Not saying it's definite, feel free to disagree...

 

EDIT:  Just realized I meant to say in Year 2 or Year 3.  Not Daniel Jones will need to wait until Year 3/4 (2-3 years from now).  My bad...

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8 minutes ago, Gmen said:

@TheVillain112 Almost all scouting reports mention his intelligence. And you think he’s going to sit on the bench for 2-3 years because he’s not smart enough? I’m just calling you out on your absolutely ridiculous statement.

Recruited by Ivy League schools, 36 on wonderlic, praised for his intelligence in scouting reports - Deemed too dumb to play for 2-3 years by @TheVillain112 SMH

If you were low key trolling, job well done sir

A lot of this has no relevance to what Villain said. Wonderlic scores mean very little. It’s not about intelligence on its own, it’s about how it’s applied. Your football IQ can be off the charts but if you can’t process information quickly then it’s useless. You don’t get to press pause after the snap.

you just seem to be repeating the same old irrelevant stuff 

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15 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Geez you sound defensive, but I get it.  I'm stating that I trust Haskins more in those situations from what I saw.  From the same article that you linked:

  • Incessant patting of the ball through progressions
  • Waits an extra step before cutting it loose too often
  • Average release speed slowed by small windup
  • Attempts throws into some impossible windows
  • Needs to work ahead of schedule more often on next level
  • Showed willingness to throw it up for grabs rather than take sack

Wouldn't those be signs of bad decision making? And the patting/extra step/release speed makes it appear he's slow through his progressions.  But I see you're not really looking for an assessment...

The bolded show up big time on tape. He is pretty dynamite on 0, 1, 2 step drops but gets kind of fidgety on throws that take longer to develop sometimes. Some QBs get knocked for "burping the baby" before the throw. Daniel Jones would get a case against him from CPS if it was a real baby. It's an odd tick that hopefully will be fixed. He also will wait a bit too long on some throws when he just needs to trust his eyes and let it loose. That is easily correctable and is a must under Shurmur. I don't think it is fair to say he is slow through his progressions because of those things though. He reads the field well pre and post snap. In fact, the one big positive you come away with watching Jones is, besides a handful of really dumb snaps, he takes what the defense gives him. He throws to the spot of a blitzing backer, he knows when he should take off and run, and he knows to deliver the ball quickly on a short drop when his 1st read is open.

The other 3 things I'm not concerned with. His release speed is fine, every college QB tries to do more than they should and force some balls (something Jones does less than a lot of college QBs but still definitely shows up every now and again), and he showed a really great improvement his senior year in taking care of the ball. In fact, I would say he is too safe when it comes to taking sacks or throwing the ball away. He stood in the pocket and took a ton of hits while delivering well placed balls. The picks I saw him throw from 2018 were mostly bad decisions- either into tight windows or double coverage or something. That Virginia game was rough- he made some bad decisions in that game for sure.

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I'm honestly not convinced that Urban Meyer puts Jones on the field, even if he sat for 3 years.  I imagine one of the QBs he recruits for his system would jump seniority.

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3 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

The bolded show up big time on tape. He is pretty dynamite on 0, 1, 2 step drops but gets kind of fidgety on throws that take longer to develop sometimes. Some QBs get knocked for "burping the baby" before the throw. Daniel Jones would get a case against him from CPS if it was a real baby. It's an odd tick that hopefully will be fixed. He also will wait a bit too long on some throws when he just needs to trust his eyes and let it loose. That is easily correctable and is a must under Shurmur. I don't think it is fair to say he is slow through his progressions because of those things though. He reads the field well pre and post snap.

That's fair.  That's just how it appeared to me watching it, but you are right that it could just be a result of the padding, extra steps, and being hesitant to rip it while going through the progressions.  My comments weren't to say he's awful at those things either, just comparing it to Haskins.  Jones is the better athlete and his legs will help, where as Haskins is 100% a pocket passer.  Being a pocket passer though, I was impressed with how quickly Haskins was in his decision making, reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly.  If he wasn't good at that, and didn't have any athleticism, he would be awful...

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1 minute ago, TheVillain112 said:

That's fair.  That's just how it appeared to me watching it, but you are right that it could just be a result of the padding, extra steps, and being hesitant to rip it while going through the progressions.  My comments weren't to say he's awful at those things either, just comparing it to Haskins.  Jones is the better athlete and his legs will help, where as Haskins is 100% a pocket passer.  Being a pocket passer though, I was impressed with how quickly Haskins was in his decision making, reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly.  If he wasn't good at that, and didn't have any athleticism, he would be awful...

I think field processing is a strength of both guys. I think both are accurate as well, with Haskins being more accurate down the field and having a way more powerful arm. Jones has the Eli syndrome sometimes where his passes get where they need to go, but flutter getting there. It can get him in trouble on short throws outside the numbers. I had Haskins higher on my list than Jones because I valued those things more than the positives Jones offered. The Giants obviously valued the athleticism and starting experience more. It's not what I would have done, but I don't necessarily think it is wrong or bad. We'll have to wait and see.

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Both were over drafted. Jones is a Mid 3rd Round Prospect. He might be the most over drafted QB of all time. There’s literally nothing special about him. 

Haskins is a Mid 2nd Round Prospect. 

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There's nothing special about Jones.  This is a pick that Dave Gettleman was right about.  We will know just how crazy he was after a few years.  I think we are going to find out he is even crazier than most of us already think.  I'm still in awe that he went #6 overall in the draft.  So many good players (and better quarterbacks) were out there.  I like what the Giants did after their first pick actually, but that QB pick will likely continue to set that franchise back a few years.  It's hard to move on from a guy you take 6th in the draft at least for a few years.  They put a lot of stock in a very questionable decision there. 

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16 hours ago, Gmen said:

@TheVillain112 Almost all scouting reports mention his intelligence. And you think he’s going to sit on the bench for 2-3 years because he’s not smart enough? I’m just calling you out on your absolutely ridiculous statement.

Recruited by Ivy League schools, 36 on wonderlic, praised for his intelligence in scouting reports - Deemed too dumb to play for 2-3 years by @TheVillain112 SMH

If you were low key trolling, job well done sir

Strawman much?

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