The "Kick the Tires" Thread (Other Teams Cuts)

[vegas492]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Not a chance.  First off, Melvin Gordon wants to get paid, and the Packers don't pay their RBs.  Secondly, the Chargers are going to want good value for him, so they're probably looking for a Day 2 pick minimum for him.

I don't know that the bolded part is true.

I don't think we've seen a situation in the last 5-6 years that has warranted paying a running back, have we?

They did pay Dorsey Levens, Ahman Green and Ryan Grant.  Different kind of football back then.

But since then?  Who has reached that kind of level to really get paid?

Lacy was on his way, but he was declining, quickly, and not worth the long term deal.

I think it is more fair to say that we don't know if GB will pay an upper tier running back.

As far as acquiring Gordon goes?  No thank you.  

[Victor1124]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Not a chance.  First off, Melvin Gordon wants to get paid, and the Packers don't pay their RBs.  Secondly, the Chargers are going to want good value for him, so they're probably looking for a Day 2 pick minimum for him.

How unpopular of an opinion is it that Melvin Gordon is a pretty overrated RB? He has trouble staying healthy, and has only averaged over 4 yards a carry once, which was a smaller sample size(175 carries). He is a good receiver out of the backfield and capitalized on goal-line carries but he doesn't really stand out much when I watch him play for someone so highly regarded. Is him being considered a top 5 RB proof of how weak the position is across the board or signs of the devaluation of the position?

I don't blame him for wanting to get paid but I am not surprised the Chargers haven't budged much. 

Edited September 4, 2019 by Victor1124

[Leader]

35 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I think it is more fair to say that we don't know if GB will pay an upper tier running back.

With AR throwing things around, we're probably not gonna get into the high rent districts for RBs. 

Just did a quick check.......

DAL pays 1.57% of their cap to their 3 QBs. 29.36% to their 13 OLineman. 4.90% to their 3 RBs (not including Zeke's new contract).

GB pays 13.74% of their cap to their 2 QBs. 22.85% to the 10 OLineman. 1.02% to their 3 RBs.

It'll be interesting to see how Dak's new contract extension plays out going forward. Zeke's got his now.
 

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm not even sure the Packers are going to pay Aaron Jones let alone Melvin Gordon.

Like they let Ahman Green out the door in 2006 because they weren't willing to go as rich as 4 years/ $23m.

I mean, one of the main reasons you hire LaFleur is that the offensive tree he comes from has a long history of creating productive RBs from cheap, late round backs; which meshes well with Green Bay's positional. priorities.

Edited September 4, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[OneTwoSixFive]

9 minutes ago, Leader said:

DAL pays 1.57% of their cap to their 3 QBs. 29.36% to their 13 OLineman. 4.90% to their 3 RBs (not including Zeke's new contract).

Dallas seems to place a very high priority on their linemen. Not only have they invested a huge amount of draft capital in their O line, the combined O and D lines take up 21 picks of their 53 total. In contrast on their offense QB = 2, RB = 3 (no FB), TE = 3, WR = 5. On their D, LB = 6, CB = 5, S = 5.

[Packerraymond]

We'll see the Melvin Gordon's of the world coming out of HS as a DB or WR in the near future. Absolutely no reason an athlete like MGIII should be struggling to see a 2nd contract in the NFL. No reason for anyone that talented to play RB as a position in football anymore. You're going to see more Jamaal Williams caliber athletes being the norm of the position soon me thinks.

[pacman5252]

21 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

We'll see the Melvin Gordon's of the world coming out of HS as a DB or WR in the near future. Absolutely no reason an athlete like MGIII should be struggling to see a 2nd contract in the NFL. No reason for anyone that talented to play RB as a position in football anymore. You're going to see more Jamaal Williams caliber athletes being the norm of the position soon me thinks.

You already kind of see it. There is more WR talent now than 15 years ago.

I think a lot depends on the next CBA. From a fairness standpoint, the players should lobby for something like all rookie deal getting shortened to 3 years. Currently RBs really get screwed (first time hitting FA is usually like 27, which is next to the age cliff). If I was a GM personally wouldn't want to extend Gordon for more than like 2 years since we all know he won't be the same guy in 2022

[PossibleCabbage]

I still think that you're going to see high calibre athletes at RB, just because of how the feeder system works.  In HS and College football, a running back is often the star and the focal point of the offense simply because the QBs at this level cannot make the throws NFL guys can.  Since a tiny portion of all the HS players go on to play CFB and an even tinier percentage of CFB players go onto the NFL, we're going to see people valuing "being a star in my current situation" over hypothetical earnings in the uncertain future.

The reason the NFL won't pay running backs what they want to be paid (and this is the issue here, since Gordon wants more than the Chargers are willing to pay him) is that quarterback play at the NFL level is sufficiently advanced to make running backs situational contributors to the offense.  Sure, they're going to help you grind out the 4 minute drill, or convert short yardage, and they will add credibility to your play action game, but the difference between Justin Tucker or prime Adam Vinatierri and Cody Parkey or Blair Walsh will literally win or lose playoff games.

With the exception of your really elite running backs (of which Gordon is not one) your running back shouldn't get paid much more than you would pay a good kicker.

I mean, guards don't get paid like tackles to but there's no shortage of guards since some guys are fat and not tall.  If you're short, and not fat, your options are mostly RB and ILB unless you're absurdly fast.  The real "business decision" position drain is "middle tier WRs who are electing to be DBs", IMO.

Edited September 4, 2019 by PossibleCabbage

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

We'll see the Melvin Gordon's of the world coming out of HS as a DB or WR in the near future. Absolutely no reason an athlete like MGIII should be struggling to see a 2nd contract in the NFL. No reason for anyone that talented to play RB as a position in football anymore. You're going to see more Jamaal Williams caliber athletes being the norm of the position soon me thinks.

I don't think he's struggling to see a second contract.  I think he doesn't like the reality that he isn't an elite RB.  RBs have a notoriously short shelf life, and he's averaged about 14 games played over the course of his career.  That's not going to get better as he gets older, he's going to be more likely to miss games.  Of the top RBs, his closest comp would probably be Le'Veon Bell, but Bell has been significantly more productive over his career.  That 4 year, $52M is probably the absolute ceiling that Gordon is going to get, and that's probably pushing it.  He's probably more of an $11-$12M/year player.

[Packerraymond]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I don't think he's struggling to see a second contract.  I think he doesn't like the reality that he isn't an elite RB.  RBs have a notoriously short shelf life, and he's averaged about 14 games played over the course of his career.  That's not going to get better as he gets older, he's going to be more likely to miss games.  Of the top RBs, his closest comp would probably be Le'Veon Bell, but Bell has been significantly more productive over his career.  That 4 year, $52M is probably the absolute ceiling that Gordon is going to get, and that's probably pushing it.  He's probably more of an $11-$12M/year player.

An athlete of Gordon's caliber should not be struggling to get 10m a year. He wouldn't have any issue getting it if he was a WR/DB of the same caliber as he is RB.

[CWood21]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

An athlete of Gordon's caliber should not be struggling to get 10m a year. He wouldn't have any issue getting it if he was a WR/DB of the same caliber as he is RB.

Honestly, I haven't really been following all too closely, but I thought the Chargers offer was around $10M?

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Honestly, I haven't really been following all too closely, but I thought the Chargers offer was around $10M?

You're missing the point. Gordon is another RB in a long line of talented RBs having to fight to be paid. As a stud HS player, why the hell am I playing RB if I'm 6'1 200?? Easy answer, I'm not. You're going to see the continuing of the RB talent in the league drop, those kids are going to want to play different positions from a young age.

[PossibleCabbage]

It's possible that Gordon should be playing something other than RB, since as good as an athlete he might be, he is not an exceptional running back.

[Kepler]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We'll see the Melvin Gordon's of the world coming out of HS as a DB or WR in the near future. Absolutely no reason an athlete like MGIII should be struggling to see a 2nd contract in the NFL. No reason for anyone that talented to play RB as a position in football anymore. You're going to see more Jamaal Williams caliber athletes being the norm of the position soon me thinks.

That's why I was really surprised that Ty Montgomery was so open to the rb switch when he was still here, but that was more just to see the field I suppose.

[incognito_man]

45 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You're missing the point. Gordon is another RB in a long line of talented RBs having to fight to be paid. As a stud HS player, why the hell am I playing RB if I'm 6'1 200?? Easy answer, I'm not. You're going to see the continuing of the RB talent in the league drop, those kids are going to want to play different positions from a young age.

I think you're wildly overcrediting the thought process of young football players.