FA 2020

[MrOaktown_56]

11 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

You overpay for elite players in free agency not 4yr back ups.  The guys decent but there’s absolutely no way you can pay guys of his skill set (borderline starter) as if they were top 10 (Excluding rookie deals) MLB or OLBs.  

A 4 year backup. And look at how he's playing now that he's starting. Dude was a backup behind Roquan Smith and Danny Trevathan. Those are no scrubs. Context is important. I'm watching the guy play, not looking at the depth chart or the stat sheet. I'd pay for him to play for us next year. And odds are, he won't be as expensive as Littleton, Schoebert, or Shaq Thompson either.

[Humble_Beast]

We screwed up not trading for Lenard Willams. He was had for peanuts and back to being a force. Smh we never invest in defense 

[big_palooka]

12 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

We screwed up not trading for Lenard Willams. He was had for peanuts and back to being a force. Smh we never invest in defense 

Back to being a force? He's literally been a massive disappointment for the Giants and their fans. They are getting nothing out of him.

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/04/ex-jet-leonard-williams-has-been-a-giant-disappointment/

Quote

If you thought a change of scenery would help rejuvenate Leonard Williams, think again.

Williams has played in four games with the Giants since the Jets traded him for a 2020 third-round pick and a 2021 fifth-round pick. However, his play on the field hasn’t changed much since going from Gang Green to Big Blue.

https://gmenhq.com/2019/11/30/new-york-giants-leonard-williams-trade-looks-even-worse-now/

Quote

When New York Giants GM Dave Gettleman decided to acquire Leonard Williams from the Jets – despite his team sitting at 2-6 – it was always a curious move. It now looks even worse after Williams’ lack of production.

 

 

[SimonGruber]

Would you guys pull a browns and take on Foles contract if the jags trade a 2nd Roudner and eat some of his contract. 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

Would you guys pull a browns and take on Foles contract if the jags trade a 2nd Roudner and eat some of his contract. 

Depends on the cap and hits, etc. but I do like the idea.

[Justwinning]

2 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

Would you guys pull a browns and take on Foles contract if the jags trade a 2nd Roudner and eat some of his contract. 

Would definitely like to explore that possibility 

[agarcia34]

Panther's smart to lock up Shaq Thompson before FA. He got paid and I think he could have gotten more in the open market. 

 

I would take on Foles contract for a second-rounder and just hopes he retires before the season started if he doesn't retire you would have to have him on the roster till 2022 and that's when his cap hit is only 6 million 2021 its 12 million in 2021. Foles does strike me as a QB that Gruden would like. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by agarcia34

[jimkelly02]

19 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

A 4 year backup. And look at how he's playing now that he's starting. Dude was a backup behind Roquan Smith and Danny Trevathan. Those are no scrubs. Context is important. I'm watching the guy play, not looking at the depth chart or the stat sheet. I'd pay for him to play for us next year. And odds are, he won't be as expensive as Littleton, Schoebert, or Shaq Thompson either.

That’s a nice argument of authority approach... you watch him play and I just looked at the stats and depth chart. Unfortunately for your argument I have watched him play and he’s good and starter quality even but there’s no way he’s worth top 10 money.  7-12 million per year is crazy for him, 6-8 is the limit.  If some other team wants to pay him as much as you let them, you can’t build a team paying average starters like top tier guys.

[drfrey13]

5 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

That’s a nice argument of authority approach... you watch him play and I just looked at the stats and depth chart. Unfortunately for your argument I have watched him play and he’s good and starter quality even but there’s no way he’s worth top 10 money.  7-12 million per year is crazy for him, 6-8 is the limit.  If some other team wants to pay him as much as you let them, you can’t build a team paying average starters like top tier guys.

Absolutely agree.  Our team has been unable to walk away from trades and/or FAs for awhile now and it has hurt us.  That is why teams and FAs use us as leverage.  RM was pretty bad at this and I hope Mayock is better.  Seems like he is already.

[jimkelly02]

38 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Absolutely agree.  Our team has been unable to walk away from trades and/or FAs for awhile now and it has hurt us.  That is why teams and FAs use us as leverage.  RM was pretty bad at this and I hope Mayock is better.  Seems like he is already.

We didn’t have to give a Chicago our 2nd for their 3rd in the Mack trade.  Arizona should have paid more than a 3rd and 5th to move up to 10 for Rosen.  Etc etc etc. we can’t cave like Reggie always would.  You assigned a value to a guy and walk if someone else is willing to overpay.  In 2 years they end up cutting that guy, 8/10 times.  We should have somehow gotten Amy Trask to negotiate deals, Reggie was soooooo bad.  Does anyone think Chicago was going to pull out of the Mack trade if we didn’t swap 2nd and 3rds in their favor?  
 

I think we are moving towards a value approach.  The value of drafted players In rounds 3-5, with their rookie contracts is 100x better than any free agent.  I think Mayock realizes this and will continue what he did last year.  Stock up on mid round finds to build The roster.  Also use veteran, value signings in free agency to provide depth: ie Incognito Devey Burfict , and some that won’t hit like Jj Nelson Ryan Grant Luiget etc.  

If you throw big money at a FA they need to be unreplaceable for 3 years.  Paying Nick Kwiatkoski 8-12 million (I could live with 7) is the same thing as Joyner and Williams deals last year.  We’re going to be talking about cutting him in a year or two.

funny thing is I really liked Kwiatkoski at WVU.  But i liked him as a mid round sleeper, value pick.  Paying him 8+ million is like drafting him in round 2.

[jimkelly02]

Trading for Foles to get a 2nd is an interesting idea.  Idk if we’re in the spot to do it though.  70 million is a lot but it goes quick.  We’ll spend 25-30 to resign our guys and 8-10 on the draft and have like 25-35 to spend on free agents and carry over to ‘20 (I’m refusing to take out a calculator and do The math at the moment).  We’d be paying Foles 20+ million when he only gives us 5-7 million in value as a backup QB at absolute most IMO.  I’d love Mayock to have that 2nd to find a starter to replace a guy we’d potentially save 5-10 million on in free agency, depending on position.  It’s just to rich in my blood.  I’d need a 2nd and 3rd or 4th and 5th, which Jax won’t do.

[drfrey13]

23 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

We didn’t have to give a Chicago our 2nd for their 3rd in the Mack trade.  Arizona should have paid more than a 3rd and 5th to move up to 10 for Rosen.  Etc etc etc. we can’t cave like Reggie always would.  You assigned a value to a guy and walk if someone else is willing to overpay.  In 2 years they end up cutting that guy, 8/10 times.  We should have somehow gotten Amy Trask to negotiate deals, Reggie was soooooo bad.  Does anyone think Chicago was going to pull out of the Mack trade if we didn’t swap 2nd and 3rds in their favor?  
 

I think we are moving towards a value approach.  The value of drafted players In rounds 3-5, with their rookie contracts is 100x better than any free agent.  I think Mayock realizes this and will continue what he did last year.  Stock up on mid round finds to build The roster.  Also use veteran, value signings in free agency to provide depth: ie Incognito Devey Burfict , and some that won’t hit like Jj Nelson Ryan Grant Luiget etc.  

If you throw big money at a FA they need to be unreplaceable for 3 years.  Paying Nick Kwiatkoski 8-12 million (I could live with 7) is the same thing as Joyner and Williams deals last year.  We’re going to be talking about cutting him in a year or two.

funny thing is I really liked Kwiatkoski at WVU.  But i liked him as a mid round sleeper, value pick.  Paying him 8+ million is like drafting him in round 2.

Joyner was a horrible signing but Williams we payed extra for what we thought he could be as a borderline #1.  Bad signing in hindsight but it is going to happen sometimes.  Worst part of the Mack trade is not getting teams into a trade war.  We had offers on the table from 49ers and Jets and never went back to see if they would beat Chicago's offer.  I honestly think RM new he was getting canned and this was his FU to the team.

[Bitty 2.0]

 Minnesota is in Cap Hell next year -1.2 million I say we trade a third round pick for Stefon Diggs.

[Bitty 2.0]

27 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Joyner was a horrible signing but Williams we payed extra for what we thought he could be as a borderline #1.  Bad signing in hindsight but it is going to happen sometimes.  Worst part of the Mack trade is not getting teams into a trade war.  We had offers on the table from 49ers and Jets and never went back to see if they would beat Chicago's offer.  I honestly think RM new he was getting canned and this was his FU to the team.

Joyner was not a horrible signing he’s basically the field general of the secondary.

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Joyner was a horrible signing but Williams we payed extra for what we thought he could be as a borderline #1.  Bad signing in hindsight but it is going to happen sometimes.  Worst part of the Mack trade is not getting teams into a trade war.  We had offers on the table from 49ers and Jets and never went back to see if they would beat Chicago's offer.  I honestly think RM new he was getting canned and this was his FU to the team.

Absolutely true!  the 49ers and Jets pickwould have been way higher, even if you factor in Mack’s influence is good for a few wins.

we should have had a top 8 pick last year