Geezy Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 thats whats hard about pre-draft projections there is no way to measure heart. you can have all the talent in the world and work as hard as you can to get to the NFL but what is going to happen when you get paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, big_palooka said: Pretty sure it was me. But to my defense, that wasn't the same Clowney we saw all season. That Clowney I liked. that clowney we ALL liked.lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justwinning Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Since Carr tends to spread the ball around and not lock into any single target, do you think it’s possible we bring in someone like Demarcus Robinson from KC? Has really good speed and could be a YAC weapon in this offense. Shouldn’t break the bank either. This is not to say a blue chip talent isn’t needed, but I’d hate to invest in such a player and then him getting the Cooper treatment. Edited November 12, 2019 by Justwinning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Justwinning said: Since Carr tends to spread the ball around and not lock into any single target, do you think it’s possible we bring in someone like Demarcus Robinson from KC? Has really good speed and could be a YAC weapon in this offense. Shouldn’t break the bank either. This is not to say a blue chip talent isn’t needed, but I’d hate to invest in such a player and then him getting the Cooper treatment. Tough to say what it was with Cooper. Lack of trust from Carr? Because Carr didn't look his way much for a guy so talented. Scheme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, roi34 said: Tough to say what it was with Cooper. Lack of trust from Carr? Because Carr didn't look his way much for a guy so talented. Scheme? All of the above. Coop ate when we had Musgrave. Downing and Gruden didn't utilize him enough and Carr wasn't right mentally after his injuries. I also don't think Cooper ever wanted to be here. Maybe the trade gave him a chip on his shoulder but he was always so quiet and lacked fire. It was like he was subdued for some reason. No way of knowing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, roi34 said: Tough to say what it was with Cooper. Lack of trust from Carr? Because Carr didn't look his way much for a guy so talented. Scheme? I do not know but the guy gets one off-season with Dak and he is easily a top 5 WR statistically and that is with being injured in the Jets game so he did nothing. 3rd in yards, second in TDs, and third in catches/target among top WRs. Of the 8 games he has played the whole game he has been over 100 yards in 4-8 and 80 or above in 6-8. He has also scored a TD in 6-8 games. He is definitely showing up almost every week. Not going to trash Carr but no way you can say Cooper is not a #1 WR or that it was all his fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 hours ago, roi34 said: Tough to say what it was with Cooper. Lack of trust from Carr? Because Carr didn't look his way much for a guy so talented. Scheme? Like @Silver&Black88 put it in part of his post- I don't think he wanted to be here, and it showed. Who knows the reason for that, so I won't dog him for it. But I think it showed. Carr has had his ups and downs, no doubt, but there were many times I saw Cooper half@$$ a catch, drop passes he could have easily caught, especially with the slightest coverage on him, and overall just underachieve. Moreover though, we've seen him do more with the ball in his hands in Dallas than we ever saw on even a semi-regular basis. At that point, you can't blame it on a QB, coach, or scheme (ok, to an extent you can, but you get the point). Like I said, I don't know what was going on and I'm glad to see him doing well and there's certainly no ill will since he didn't act like AB. But we're seeing an entirely different WR from him in Dallas in every aspect of the game- including effort. To me, that screams someone who just wanted out for whatever reason. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 11 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Like @Silver&Black88 put it in part of his post- I don't think he wanted to be here, and it showed. Who knows the reason for that, so I won't dog him for it. But I think it showed. Carr has had his ups and downs, no doubt, but there were many times I saw Cooper half@$$ a catch, drop passes he could have easily caught, especially with the slightest coverage on him, and overall just underachieve. Moreover though, we've seen him do more with the ball in his hands in Dallas than we ever saw on even a semi-regular basis. At that point, you can't blame it on a QB, coach, or scheme (ok, to an extent you can, but you get the point). Like I said, I don't know what was going on and I'm glad to see him doing well and there's certainly no ill will since he didn't act like AB. But we're seeing an entirely different WR from him in Dallas in every aspect of the game- including effort. To me, that screams someone who just wanted out for whatever reason. I do not think he wanted to be in Oakland and that is the biggest reason why I am happy to be going to Vegas with new facilities and stadium. We will be an attractive spot for FAs from taxes to facilities. What I do not agree with is saying he did not want to play when on the field. There is a causation problem. There was no issue with his play until Carr stopped looking his way. He would beat DBs like a drum all game long and Carr would barely look at him. When the ball finally came his way he was not ready and out of rhythm. When he was involved early and often in games he was a monster. Excluding the game he was hurt he is averaging over 8.5 targets a game and that has translated into over 100 yards a game on average. Over 16 games his numbers this year average out to 104 catches 138 targets 1690 yards 14 TDs. Those are around ABs career highs with 30% less targets. If this keeps up over the next 5-6 years he could be a HOF. I could keep going with stats but the point is that Carr and Cooper are both pros and the blame is on both. What happened behind the scenes is pure speculation. I am happy we got a 1st for him but I also would have been happy giving him ABs contract if we would have used him correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Hargreaves to the Texans. So we didn't put a claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 11:30 PM, drfrey13 said: I do not know but the guy gets one off-season with Dak and he is easily a top 5 WR statistically and that is with being injured in the Jets game so he did nothing. 3rd in yards, second in TDs, and third in catches/target among top WRs. Of the 8 games he has played the whole game he has been over 100 yards in 4-8 and 80 or above in 6-8. He has also scored a TD in 6-8 games. He is definitely showing up almost every week. Not going to trash Carr but no way you can say Cooper is not a #1 WR or that it was all his fault. The main thing is targets, Dak feeds Coop. When DC looked his way, it usually ended up well for us. just a weird situation, but the fact that Dak force feeds him the ball highlights his talents even more. The skill was always there he is just being featured more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 hours ago, Geezy said: The main thing is targets, Dak feeds Coop. When DC looked his way, it usually ended up well for us. just a weird situation, but the fact that Dak force feeds him the ball highlights his talents even more. The skill was always there he is just being featured more. He is not even being force fed. He is doing this while being tied for 17th with 4 other WRs for targets. He is the most efficient WR in the league. He ranks 5th in FDs per target, 2nd in yards per target, and 2nd in TDs per target. His averages this year over 16 games would make him the 13th highest ranked WR just beating Tyreke Hill by 1 target. His numbers across the board would be better than Hill also. In fact he would have been #1 in yards and 2nd only to Ebron by one TD. But hey he is not a #1 WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: He is not even being force fed. He is doing this while being tied for 17th with 4 other WRs for targets. He is the most efficient WR in the league. He ranks 5th in FDs per target, 2nd in yards per target, and 2nd in TDs per target. His averages this year over 16 games would make him the 13th highest ranked WR just beating Tyreke Hill by 1 target. His numbers across the board would be better than Hill also. In fact he would have been #1 in yards and 2nd only to Ebron by one TD. But hey he is not a #1 WR. Maybe it just seemed that way seeing how DC seemed to ignore him at times. Definitely getting more targets with Dak than DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 42 minutes ago, Geezy said: Maybe it just seemed that way seeing how DC seemed to ignore him at times. Definitely getting more targets with Dak than DC Them having such a good run game certainly helps. Means you can't bracket as often/effectively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, Geezy said: Maybe it just seemed that way seeing how DC seemed to ignore him at times. Definitely getting more targets with Dak than DC He is getting slightly more per game then he was getting with Carr the first couple years in the league. That is what made it so frustrating. He was amazing his first couple years and then all of a sudden his targets dropped. By year he averaged: Carr 2015 - 8.13 2016 - 8.25 2017 - 6.85 (1/3 of targets in 2 of 14 games) 2018 - 5.16 Dak 2018 - 8.44 2019 - 8.63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Throw money at Joe Schobert. Heck of a player. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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