Is Aaron Rodgers still good as a pre-snap QB?

[snackattack]

2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I'm not saying Aaron can't improve. His issues are clearly mental, not physical, at least to me. But he has not been close to an elite QB with any kind of regularity in the last five years and it shouldn't be a crime to have an issue with that.

i agree with most of this, but need to disagree with the "last 5 years" part, which i feel like is a common sentiment among fans.

• 2014- MVP
• 2015- statistically one of his worst years, had a bad stretch of games, but still made playoffs
• 2016- finished 3rd in MVP voting
• 2017- on pace for 40+ TDs and <10 INTs, 66%+ accuracy, 4-1 record before the MIN game
• 2018- really bad for many reasons

I'm not on the "rodgers has been bad for several years" train.  2018 was so bad, but that doesn't mean we should discount the variables we're dealing with this year (new system, no preseason, good defense / leading games, etc.) that could factor into a slow start.  There is no trend that rodgers is terrible- there was a bad year for many reasons.  let's give him a chance to get in sync with this offense before we act like he is a total bust at this point.

 

[Shanedorf]

here's a link to performance and passer ratings for AR's career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00.htm

[MrBobGray]

6 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

You're not being honest, there are 10x as many posters criticizing Rodgers that ever criticized Favre. 

Good, maybe we learned something. 

I don't want anyone else as my QB and he'll go down as my second favorite packer ever behind Woodson, but I'm not going to apologise for wanting to discuss what I see as his issues and I frankly think it's weird how much pushback there is on that. @AlexGreen#20 is getting a lot of flak in this thread and he said his prediction is going 11-5 and getting bounced in the divisional round. Sure his delivery is pretty classic him, but I still think the message feels like any discussion of Rodgers needs to purely positive or a substantial group of posters get really pissed.

[incognito_man]

Rodgers' last 48 games (4 seasons worth): 

1168/1858 - 13076 yds - 97 TD - 20 INT - 96.7 Rating
292/465 - 3269 yds, 24 TD - 5 INT - 96.7 Rating (per 16 games)

Rodgers' 66 games before that (starting in 2011): 

1411/2116 - 17792 yds - 158 TD - 28 INT - 112 Rating

342/513 - 4313 yds - 38 TD - 7 INT - 112 Rating (per 16 games)

 

[incognito_man]

Rodgers is throwing for 65 fewer yards and 1 fewer TD per game over the past 4 years worth of games relative to his "peak" prior to that.

[incognito_man]

14 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Good, maybe we learned something. 

I don't want anyone else as my QB and he'll go down as my second favorite packer ever behind Woodson, but I'm not going to apologise for wanting to discuss what I see as his issues and I frankly think it's weird how much pushback there is on that. @AlexGreen#20 is getting a lot of flak in this thread and he said his prediction is going 11-5 and getting bounced in the divisional round. Sure his delivery is pretty classic him, but I still think the message feels like any discussion of Rodgers needs to purely positive or a substantial group of posters get really pissed.

I think there are many of us that just think this is a bad argument more than anything.

[MrBobGray]

43 minutes ago, snackattack said:

i agree with most of this, but need to disagree with the "last 5 years" part, which i feel like is a common sentiment among fans.

• 2014- MVP
• 2015- statistically one of his worst years, had a bad stretch of games, but still made playoffs
• 2016- finished 3rd in MVP voting
• 2017- on pace for 40+ TDs and <10 INTs, 66%+ accuracy, 4-1 record before the MIN game
• 2018- really bad for many reasons

I'm not on the "rodgers has been bad for several years" train.  2018 was so bad, but that doesn't mean we should discount the variables we're dealing with this year (new system, no preseason, good defense / leading games, etc.) that could factor into a slow start.  There is no trend that rodgers is terrible- there was a bad year for many reasons.  let's give him a chance to get in sync with this offense before we act like he is a total bust at this point.

 

To be clear, I didn't say he was bad. I said he wasn't an elite QB with regularity, which I stand by. I'm not counting 2014, I'm going from 2015 to now. He has two down years (2015 and 2018), and an elite year (2016). 2017 was five games, of which he played not well in two of them. So far he's not off to a strong start in 2019. He's had two great playoff games since 2012, and five mediocre or bad ones.

None of this is saying he won't bounce back and play great this year. He may and I hope he does, and think there's reason to believe he will. I don't think he's trash or done. I DO think he could be playing much, much better football than he has been.

Edited September 25, 2019 by MrBobGray

[vegas492]

27 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

here's a link to performance and passer ratings for AR's career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00.htm

Been said before and I'll say it again.  That's a bad mustache.  Looks like a caterpillar under his nose.  Unless he's wearing the black 10 gallon hat, that thing shouldn't be there.

Thought about it.  That pic is so bad, it's probably the reason he's not flawless pre-snap anymore.  And why his mechanics are off.  A bad 'stache' can really ruin a guy.

Thought about it some more.  @incognito_man can you find me some stats, pre 'stache and post 'stache?

Edited September 25, 2019 by vegas492

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Been said before and I'll say it again.  That's a bad mustache.  Looks like a caterpillar under his nose.  Unless he's wearing the black 10 gallon hat, that thing shouldn't be there.

Thought about it.  That pic is so bad, it's probably the reason he's not flawless pre-snap anymore.  And why his mechanics are off.  A bad 'stache' can really ruin a guy.

he looks like a 70's porn star

@wgbeethree

[Sasquatch]

I tend to think this is the Rodgers we have moving forward, with variances both up and down (and considering his age and wear and tear, I'm ok with it).  Expectations adjusted - check. 

As such, hopefully he and MLF can find the right scheme that will give Rodgers a few more years/chances to be great again.  That's good for us fans, the organization, and probably for the league as a whole really.  Anyone sitting around waiting for him to somehow become Ma-homie or Jackson, might examine their expectations also.  Not saying Rodgers couldn't have a few games where he puts up gargantuan numbers, but tempering your expectations might allow ya'll to enjoy the ride a little more as we see our dude close out his storied career in the near future.

[PACKRULE]

12 minutes ago, Sasquatch said:

I tend to think this is the Rodgers we have moving forward, with variances both up and down (and considering his age and wear and tear, I'm ok with it).  Expectations adjusted - check. 

As such, hopefully he and MLF can find the right scheme that will give Rodgers a few more years/chances to be great again.  That's good for us fans, the organization, and probably for the league as a whole really.  Anyone sitting around waiting for him to somehow become Ma-homie or Jackson, might examine their expectations also.  Not saying Rodgers couldn't have a few games where he puts up gargantuan numbers, but tempering your expectations might allow ya'll to enjoy the ride a little more as we see our dude close out his storied career in the near future.

Nothing wrong with this line of thinking if one doesn't want to get to far into the X and O's. With that said he says he wants to play until he's 40 or longer.

[Sasquatch]

Just now, PACKRULE said:

Nothing wrong with this line of thinking if one doesn't want to get to far into the X and O's. With that said he says he wants to play until he's 40 or longer.

I hope he does (want to play another 5-7 years), and I don't need to get into the X's and O's to know that his mechanics are off (throwing sidearm, off his back foot, etc), he's holding the ball too long, he's not seeing the field well, and he seems frustrated on and off the field with his own play.  I'm not asking Rodgers to be Superman anymore. I'm not asking him to play like Ma-homie.  I'm not even asking him to be a top 5 or 8 QB.  I'm asking him to try and slow the game down in his mind, trust his blocking, know the clock (in his mind and on the scoreboard), not worry about throwing into coverage so much, and have some damn fun out there.  His disgust for himself surely isn't helping to engender any kind of positive energy or momentum out there.

[MrBobGray]

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

I tend to think this is the Rodgers we have moving forward, with variances both up and down (and considering his age and wear and tear, I'm ok with it).  Expectations adjusted - check. 

As such, hopefully he and MLF can find the right scheme that will give Rodgers a few more years/chances to be great again.  That's good for us fans, the organization, and probably for the league as a whole really.  Anyone sitting around waiting for him to somehow become Ma-homie or Jackson, might examine their expectations also.  Not saying Rodgers couldn't have a few games where he puts up gargantuan numbers, but tempering your expectations might allow ya'll to enjoy the ride a little more as we see our dude close out his storied career in the near future.

I really like this take, but I should say I do believe Aaron has plenty of MVP potential in him still. His errors are technique and mental mistakes, habits he needs to break and some he needs to get back into. The game he's trying to play now used to be supplementary to his godlike pocket game, and I have hope that with time he'll work his way back to that. I think he's drifted further and further away for a few years because that was the road he and Mac decided to go down, but LaFleur's offense just isn't built for that and I hope that kinda just forces him to work on it as the season progresses.

Edited September 26, 2019 by MrBobGray

[Redt]

Football is the ultimate team sport, isolate any player over the course of a professional football game against professional football players and there will be things to improve upon. This idea of internet chat room geniuses pontificating  on how  QB in the NFL should be played when they have never even sniffed that level of competition is hilarious. Go on, lets break down Reggie's every play and talk about how overrated he is on first down? Context is important in a team game.

 

I could not be more pleased with this season to date and see a very bright future with the current regime. I was thinking 8-8 when this season started and more growing pains are to come, but this team is united by a common cause, winning. I'm no spring chicken and suffered through the 70's and 80's, so I can appreciate a winning team without an agenda,  to prove, I don't know what.

 

Keep the hate, it fits you well.

[Norm]

"Hater" is a term used by weak minded people in the face of legitimate criticism. In sports it ='s I don't like what you said about my team