DawgX Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, iknowcool said: Then you aren't doing enough research. Nobody is suggesting that our community, like every community, doesn't have it's own issues. That isn't the point of BLM because guess what? Black people ain't killing other black people because they are black. And what's the evidence that the police shootings that occur happen because someone is black? Are you as equally outraged when someone of another race is the victim of police brutality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, 11sanchez11 said: Silly tweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, DawgX said: Did I say socialists or Marxists? No. And if you think I'll be voting for Trump, you're mistaken. I mean as a Marxist, lol. History is class conflict, a collective will of the forces of material reality clashing against one another and resolving their incongruities either within itself through revolutionary change or through an externality that dismantles a system that cannot fundamentally change itself along those lines, the idea that you're positing is empty scientism, a positivistic outlook on reality that you're attempting to square the circle with. Epistemic Uncertainty is not solved by some immutable and unchanging carnal logic and facts, facts are not synonymous with truth, data, scientism is built on a fundamental trust of institutional and interpersonal legitimacy in structure. The riots, the violence, the internal pressures easing the myriad contradictions of living in a late capitalist society are all created within, and by, the material reality through which peoples lived experiences and most importantly, the deeply rooted alienation of the every day experience of these lived people, within the class stratum and hierarchy created through the dialectic that created Capitalism. You can't square the circle as some logical game of numbers and facile statistics as if they tell you an answer. Reality is expressed through it's material conditions and through it's material expression created by those conditions. These are basic concepts, the world is not built on some firmament of immutable laws, it's built on an agreed upon interpersonal trust that forms a society, when that obviously breaks down in the form of a codified underclass in the hierarchical structure, of which capitalism makes necessary in all cases, naturally that underclass will reject the trappings meant to mollify their anger once alienation reaches a terminal point. Welcome to Dialectical Materialism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, DawgX said: For a group that calls themselves "Black Lives Matter" yet they don't address the biggest problems that black lives face, yeah I'm going to criticize them for that. Maybe because that would involve some actual accountability rather than just cry racism. Focus less on the group themselves and more on why they are called that and the need for such a group to exist in the first place. Not saying you have to agree with everything the organization has done, but you should agree with the phrase "black lives matter" and why it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, Joe_is_the_best said: Silly tweet correct, which is why I posted it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Can you provide a link to these statistics? https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/07/16/the-research-is-clear-white-people-are-not-more-likely-than-black-people-to-be-killed-by-police/https://www.newscientist.com/article/2246987-us-police-kill-up-to-6-times-more-black-people-than-white-people/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/ And I won't even bother getting into incarceration. What are these statistics that you have that seemingly back up that black people are not targeted, and killed, at a much higher rate? I'm not going to get into what I believe because I think it is against forum rules (and I think you all know you've crossed the line several times) But as a general matter of statistics your 2nd link shows the debate. There are statistics on both sides depending on what question you want answered and what you think best correlates, supports the ultimate proposition. Anytime people call what the other is saying misleading is itself misleading. It is a debate about what is the best question to ask to support the ultimate proposition being made. That is why the whole "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" meme exists. It's not the statistics, it's the question and other assumptions that are where debate occurs and people talk passed each other because they don't want to engage with the ontological and epistemological questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DawgX said: And what's the evidence that the police shootings that occur happen because someone is black? NVM Edited August 27, 2020 by iknowcool No reason to go any further in this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_is_the_best Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, 11sanchez11 said: correct, which is why I posted it Oh I see, carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, DawgX said: And what's the evidence that the police shootings that occur happen because someone is black? Are you as equally outraged when someone of another race is the victim of police brutality? the *really* funny thing about this is that BLM has organized protests when white people have been killed by police. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelonebillsfan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, DawgX said: And what's the evidence that the police shootings that occur happen because someone is black? Are you as equally outraged when someone of another race is the victim of police brutality? I mean the disproportionate and incredibly slanted element of police violence occurs against the poor, it just happens that black people are among the poorest in most places in this country. Congratulations you've discovered class conflict. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Focus less on the group themselves and more on why they are called that and the need for such a group to exist in the first place. Not saying you have to agree with everything the organization has done, but you should agree with the phrase "black lives matter" and why it matters. I do. I just wish I heard more from them about bigger problems black people face. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the single parenthood rate which is over 70% (IIRC) in the black community. It's too high among all races and ethnic groups, but it's the highest in the black community. And there's a huge correlation of people (of all races) who grow up in single-parent households and those who end up in prisons, develop drug addictions, mental health issues, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 we are getting "play the hits" coded racism in here this week 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Thelonebillsfan said: I mean the disproportionate and incredibly slanted element of police violence occurs against the poor, it just happens that black people are among the poorest in most places in this country. Congratulations you've discovered class conflict. you would think, given that police violence against the white poor *is* a legitimate issue, that white people would stand up for their fellow skinfolk against this threat. extremely cucked mentality to just let it slide, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossburg Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Lol okay. Black people are imprisoned and killed at a far higher rate by police than black people, and it's all just a coincidence. I think he may be referring to it being more poverty than race driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, DawgX said: I do. I just wish I heard more from them about bigger problems black people face. The biggest one, in my opinion, is the single parenthood rate which is over 70% (IIRC) in the black community. It's too high among all races and ethnic groups, but it's the highest in the black community. And there's a huge correlation of people (of all races) who grow up in single-parent households and those who end up in prisons, develop drug addictions, mental health issues, etc. I wonder if that has anything to do with targeted mass incarceration by the police ........................... (gasp) it does 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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