Run Defense Snapshots

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, coachbuns said:

Agree.  Seems our DL is getting pushed around way to easy.  Thinking our defensive scheming isn't any where near what it should be.  Square pegs in a round hole?

My biggest question about all this is:

All ******* offseason we were told. This defense wants to be a unit that can win games on their own. We want to be able to shut people down and not rely on Aaron Rodgers and the offense.

8 weeks later and this defense is playing dime defense against 11 personnel sitting back in a 2 deep shell, ****ting it's pants about the thought of giving up a big play. Playing this brand of football to hopefully hold the offense to 20 in the hopes that Rodgers and the offense can score 30.

What the **** happened?

[coachbuns]

5 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

My biggest question about all this is:

All ******* offseason we were told. This defense wants to be a unit that can win games on their own. We want to be able to shut people down and not rely on Aaron Rodgers and the offense.

8 weeks later and this defense is playing dime defense against 11 personnel sitting back in a 2 deep shell, ****ting it's pants about the thought of giving up a big play. Playing this brand of football to hopefully hold the offense to 20 in the hopes that Rodgers and the offense can score 30.

What the **** happened?

No idea.  All I know is I'd rather be beaten by blitzing the crap out of somebody and getting burned than sitting back in a soft zone dying by a thousand cuts.  Put some frickin pressure on the opposition and let the secondary play some press.  All this dime crap defense they've been doing isn't working ... try something else!  Get past Carolina, get some needed bye time off and come back with some different ideas how the hell we can continue winning. 

[incognito_man]

This defense pairs very, very poorly with an offense that's goes 3 and out for 3/4 of the game.

[MacReady]

This is why I wanted someone other than Pettine.  It's the same **** Dom Capers would do.  Capers would come out with that asinine two DL look on 4th and goal from the one.  It's so damn aggravating to see 7 DBs on the field and they can't even cover because we've got a single high safety so somebody is going to get beat deep because all teams have to do is double the Smiths because we don't have an interior pass rush.

Also, even I can admit Martinez has not been playing well this year at all.  He was extremely underrated by a bunch of idiots last year, but this year he's making them look right.  He's AJ Hawking this year. 

Still, if Pettine stays as our defensive coordinator, ILB is not our biggest need.  The best ILB in this coming draft could not solve our run defense problems the way defense has been called. 

IDL in one. 

ILB in two.

WR in three. 

Super Bowl. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Outpost31

[{Family Ghost}]

2 hours ago, coachbuns said:

No idea.  All I know is I'd rather be beaten by blitzing the crap out of somebody and getting burned than sitting back in a soft zone dying by a thousand cuts.  Put some frickin pressure on the opposition and let the secondary play some press.  All this dime crap defense they've been doing isn't working ... try something else!  Get past Carolina, get some needed bye time off and come back with some different ideas how the hell we can continue winning. 

Same here .. I yell blitz all day and it rarely comes.  Make the QB uneasy .. get after his butt.  It's better to down swinging than to have your soft defense be toyed around with all day.

[MacReady]

When I said we should completely clear house after McCarthy was fired, noooooooobody even entertained the idea.  We had no health and no talent on last year’s defense.  
 

Now we got Smith, Smith, Clark, King is healthy, Alexander is healthy, we added Savage, we added Amos and still we’re giving up MORE of those explosive plays than we did with Capers.

It’s clear that this defense cannot keep up with good quarterbacks for another year.  Either we gotta change the scheme to fit what we have or we gotta continue dumping first round picks into the defense.  
 

At this point it’s almost worth drafting an ILB in the first round in the 22-32 range where we will be drafting just so y’all can see that an ILB is not a savior even if he ends up looking like Kumerow.

[Golfman]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

When I said we should completely clear house after McCarthy was fired, noooooooobody even entertained the idea.  We had no health and no talent on last year’s defense.  
 

Now we got Smith, Smith, Clark, King is healthy, Alexander is healthy, we added Savage, we added Amos and still we’re giving up MORE of those explosive plays than we did with Capers.

It’s clear that this defense cannot keep up with good quarterbacks for another year.  Either we gotta change the scheme to fit what we have or we gotta continue dumping first round picks into the defense.  
 

At this point it’s almost worth drafting an ILB in the first round in the 22-32 range where we will be drafting just so y’all can see that an ILB is not a savior even if he ends up looking like Kumerow.

Translation: We have to make a mistake with our #1 pick so I can prove I'm right. Not your best moment!  

1. We aren't getting into the QB's face quick enough with the interior rush.

2. We are getting out schemed on running plays as Pettine is clearly OK with giving up running yardage assuming teams won't stick with it. 

3. Martinez is TERRIBLE against the pass and he's not dominant against the run which makes him a guy you don't re-sign. 

4. Nobody but Kenny Clark is more than a JAG on the d-line. You and I both were pounding the table for Leonard Williams. He would have been able to help mitigate issues 1, 4. 

 

Bottom line we need to play a lot more base defense with Martinez and Burks inside and 3 down linemen. Drop to 2 down linemen if they go 3 WRs. We are beaten before the snap of the ball against decent running teams because we don't have enough beef up front at the snap. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Golfman said:

Translation: We have to make a mistake with our #1 pick so I can prove I'm right. Not your best moment! 

I didn't say it would be a mistake you turtle nipple.  Building an NFL team is a marathon, not a sprint.  You can take an ILB, watch as that ILB needs more help on the DL and still not have made a mistake by taking that ILB. 

Devin White right now is not playing very well at all.  That doesn't mean he can't play well later in his career. 

My issue with ILB in the first round is taking them high in the first round.  I have always said with every position that they have value, just not high. 

1st overall to about 22 overall, you're there for a reason.  The nucleus of your team is bad.  It means you don't have a strong QB or you don't have a strong DL/secondary.  Taking an ILB does not elevate the nucleus of your team. 

I still think taking ILB instead of IDL is a mistake for this team, but since we've got some strong pieces on the front, it wouldn't be a waste for us right now. 

And speaking of ILB... Roquan Smith, Devin White... Not playing like the can't miss prospects I was told they were.  In fact, no ILB taken in the first round since probably CJ Mosely is playing well at all right now. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Outpost31

[Rainmaker90]

I'm def not an Xs and Os guy, are we like not trusting our secondary enough? If anything we should give him/ extra support to our front 7 and ride our expensive secondary. 

* We need Clark to get healthy

* Where are our more exotic blitzes that we saw frequently last year? I know we have The Smiths but keeping the offense guessing is a good thing. Idt I remember seeing any ILB blitzes or CBs. 

[Joe]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

This isn't one game. This is like 6 straight weeks. 

Martinez isn't the problem. Every ILB looks like crap when they're not kept clean. How do you keep an ILB clean when you don't have the people up front to attempt it?

This. We need to be using this next draft on linemen, not WR's. We can clearly say that Adams hasn't panned out and that Lowry is great in obvious passing downs, not so much against the run. We need another big body next to Clark; plain and simple. 

[Packerraymond]

Pettine's run defense has always been his biggest flaw.

However I feel like Pettine's true defense pairs extremely well with this offense. The defense needs to be about stops and TOPs, not points. I'd rather give up 7 points in 1:45 than 3 in 8:00 like the opening drive yesterday. We shouldn't fear the big play, we should always be on the attack and accept the big play as an occasional consequence. This defense is talented enough that playing on the attack I feel they'd make more plays than they give up. If we give up 21 quick points over the course of a game because someone beat us in an aggressive call, but also get 2 turnovers and 4 sacks (which are usually drive killers) I have confidence that those results would yield our offense enough possessions to score well over 21.

Right now we're playing soft, getting Aaron limited series (3 in the first half yesterday, completely unacceptable) and still giving up points, while not making any plays.

Play aggressive and accept the consequences. Keep coaching scared and you can coach some other defense next year Mike.

[TheOnlyThing]

9 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Pettine's run defense has always been his biggest flaw.

However I feel like Pettine's true defense pairs extremely well with this offense. The defense needs to be about stops and TOPs, not points. I'd rather give up 7 points in 1:45 than 3 in 8:00 like the opening drive yesterday. We shouldn't fear the big play, we should always be on the attack and accept the big play as an occasional consequence. This defense is talented enough that playing on the attack I feel they'd make more plays than they give up. If we give up 21 quick points over the course of a game because someone beat us in an aggressive call, but also get 2 turnovers and 4 sacks (which are usually drive killers) I have confidence that those results would yield our offense enough possessions to score well over 21.

Right now we're playing soft, getting Aaron limited series (3 in the first half yesterday, completely unacceptable) and still giving up points, while not making any plays.

Play aggressive and accept the consequences. Keep coaching scared and you can coach some other defense next year Mike.

Agree with much of this and that interminable first drive, starting at their own 5 against a guy like Rivers who can place the ball anywhere and with no deep threat on the Chargers, sucked the life out of the team and (Packer) fans.

This article is spot on.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2019/11/03/packers-defense-set-tone-disappointing-start-vs-chargers/4106701002/

Also, I noticed that Jaire got noticeably upset by all the easy pitch and catch first downs, which undoubtedly contributed to his poor decision on the sideline pass & long run play to Williams.

Something has got to change because the status quo just ain't working.

[mikebpackfan]

4 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

 

IDL in one. 

ILB in two.

WR in three. 

Super Bowl. 

DL and WR are the least likely positions to come in rookie year and significantly contribute. You are better off hoping Keke, MVS, EQ and sternberger make big leaps this offseason  and come into their own in their 2nd/3rd year. 

[cannondale]

4 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Same here .. I yell blitz all day and it rarely comes.  Make the QB uneasy .. get after his butt.  It's better to down swinging than to have your soft defense be toyed around with all day.

Again, who are you gonna send ?

[MacReady]

Just now, cannondale said:

Again, who are you gonna send ?

Best idea is to send who is worst at their job.  Send Martinez, Redmond and Tramon Williams on more blitzes.  Play more zone.  Let Amos, Savage, King, Alexander cover. 

If you can't get there, it doesn't matter how many people you have in coverage.  So we have to get there.