Browns vs. Steelers GDT

[NateDawg]

@Mind Character The tough part about this is that even if you are right, and Freddie is not the answer, shouldn’t we still root for him and the Browns to turn things around and beat bad teams that we should beat despite him, making a fringe playoff run? I would much prefer us rolling off several straight wins and getting up over 500, even if us being a great team is a mirage. It sure beats what I am used to, staring down the barrel of another four win season. I do get the point you are making about people thinking us winning games translates to our guy being a good head coach. What is a better alternative than this though.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

7 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

@Mind Character The tough part about this is that even if you are right, and Freddie is not the answer, shouldn’t we still root for him and the Browns to turn things around and beat bad teams that we should beat despite him, making a fringe playoff run? I would much prefer us rolling off several straight wins and getting up over 500, even if us being a great team is a mirage. It sure beats what I am used to, staring down the barrel of another four win season. I do get the point you are making about people thinking us winning games translates to our guy being a good head coach. What is a better alternative than this though.

Yeah it’s either that or lose more and have more coaching turnover.  I’m cool on that, I’ve seen plenty of both over the last 20 years.

Perhaps, and I’m just thinking out loud here, Freddie becomes better at his job with experience.  I mean, I know it’s a wild concept, but I’m just trying to think outside the box.

[brownie man]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah it’s either that or lose more and have more coaching turnover.  I’m cool on that, I’ve seen plenty of both over the last 20 years.

Perhaps, and I’m just thinking out loud here, Freddie becomes better at his job with experience.  I mean, I know it’s a wild concept, but I’m just trying to think outside the box.

Yeah we did that with Hue

 let’s not keep awful coaches hoping they’ll not be awful just because we just fired the last awful coach. 
 

Now if he wasn’t awful that’s one thing. I didn’t want to fire Chud or Pettine, but Freddie has been absolutely terrible at every part of the HC position. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by brownie man

[Reginaldm9]

I work with the most obnoxious Steelers fan ever. She's constantly decked out in Steelers gear and constantly talks about how she's so excited for them to beat the Browns, but she has no clue that Big Ben isn't even the QB right now. There's nothing worse than someone who aligns themselves to some sort of perceived superiority without knowing anything about what they're into. I'm not even one of those guys who think you should always root for the hometown team, but c'mon lady, at least know what you're talking about. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

26 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Yeah we did that with Hue

 let’s not keep awful coaches hoping they’ll not be awful just because we just fired the last awful coach. 
 

Now if he wasn’t awful that’s one thing. I didn’t want to fire Chud or Pettine, but Freddie has been absolutely terrible at every part of the HC position. 

And keeping Hue for 2 seasons was absolutely the correct move, bringing him back for year 3 was the issue.

Hue lost the team. Players hated him and some even subtly spoke out (McCourtey) while they were here.  That was the big issue.  It’s also not seeming to be an issue for Freddie as of yet.

You have it in your head he’s been woefully incompetent and the sole reason we’re 3-6.  He hasn’t been and he’s not.

You can’t commit 4 turnovers against the Seahawks and win.  Those aren’t on coaching.

You can’t turn the ball over 3 straight plays and spot the defending champs a 17 point lead at home and win.  Those aren’t on coaching.

Were there some games that the coaching was suspect?  Sure.  It’s a first time HC with an all new staff and a young team.  If you’re surprised they weren’t running like Swiss watch, the issue is your expectations.

For whatever reason you have it stuck in your head that he can’t improve, his decision making can’t improve, his understanding of the roster and coaches can’t improve, etc.  They can.  Will they?  We’ll see.  If not, he’s probably gone.  If they do, there’s no reason to fire him just because of some overblown butt frustration from fans in the first half of the season.  It’s a myopic view at best.

 

[Mind Character]

2 hours ago, NateDawg said:

@Mind Character The tough part about this is that even if you are right, and Freddie is not the answer, shouldn’t we still root for him and the Browns to turn things around and beat bad teams that we should beat despite him, making a fringe playoff run? I would much prefer us rolling off several straight wins and getting up over 500, even if us being a great team is a mirage. It sure beats what I am used to, staring down the barrel of another four win season. I do get the point you are making about people thinking us winning games translates to our guy being a good head coach. What is a better alternative than this though.

Heck yeah we should be rooting for a playoff run. Yeah, I have no idea how someone could actually root against the team winning and having success.

I just like to have some fun with posts about "Kumbaya" or "it is nigh" or whatever, but that's just to pass the time. I might be hyper-vigilant with worries about how winning against bad teams may force us to keep a HC that we shouldn't, but that's just analysis and part of the collective entertainment that is trying to understand what is versus what isn't when it comes to all aspect of a football team.

The main thing I root for is for the Browns to play good football; for Baker to remain healthy and to keep progressing, learning, and improving. That, along with rooting for the same thing for the Browns foundational young players and for the rest of the players success even if it's in spite of coaching. 

I don't really root for coaches like that but I certainly wish Freddie improves because of his influence over the team.

---

Ultimately though, whether it's football or historical/political/self-beliefs I'm anti-illusions and anti-misperception for myself and those around me. So, while I'm all for enjoying the bliss of sports team winning (even if it comes against bad teams) I'm against the mindless euphoria and feel-goodisms that whitewash some of what may be the reality of things. 

If I'm going to ride the mindless euphoria wave and have a good time while we rattle off wins against bad teams (And ride the wave I shall!!) all I want is a moment of clarity (even if it's but a short, quick, and brief moment) where some of us fans look at each other and at least acknowledge that the mindless bliss might be more illusions than based in substance... then I'm all good... with going back to the euphoria; to riding the wave and just having a good time.

There's nothing worse than riding the wave and looking around at the people riding the wave with you to only see an eyes glazed over mindless zombie so lost in the euphoria of the moment that the person can't really process or make sense of anything. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Mind Character

[Mind Character]

35 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

We're 9-10 games in and I think ultimately the bye week and the 2 weeks after broke a lot of people's resolve with Freddie.

We went into the bye week the most undisciplined team with re-occurring issues then we came out of the bye week (the time where teams are supposed to put their best effort forward) and the same issues were present in a loss followed by the loss to the Brandon Allen Broncos. I think for a lot of people that was the breaking point having to sit through 8 weeks with not a lot changing for the better.

I've said it before but 8 weeks was enough for people to be all in on Freddie last year; 8 weeks was enough for our FO to decide he was ready to be head coach. Few people had qualms like " Oh i don't know... I don't think we have enough data for that decisions yet." 

So, after 8 weeks and the same presser statements seeming like they were on loop, an unproductive bye week, and more underperforming .. a lot of people thought they have enough data to make a judgment on Freddie in the same way they thought they had enough data to make a judgment on him before he became a Head coach.

It made sense to be the most penalized team when the whole roster on the field was 21 year old first year and 2nd year players or off the street free agents. In that context, execution issues, penalties, looking not ready made some sense.

It's like we've discussed before: in two or three more wins when people have gotten enough distance from the negative gravity of the earlier part of the season no one is going to care too much about what happened before.

After we beat the Steelers tonight, Freddie in the minds of most fans will be stepping into renewed light.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Mind Character

[mistakey]

1 hour ago, brownie man said:

Yeah we did that with Hue

 let’s not keep awful coaches hoping they’ll not be awful just because we just fired the last awful coach. 
 

Now if he wasn’t awful that’s one thing. I didn’t want to fire Chud or Pettine, but Freddie has been absolutely terrible at every part of the HC position. 

I mean he has already tied hues win loss record in 9 games

[mistakey]

I think we win a tough game as long as Chubb and hunt stay healthy

[BleedTheClock]

I don't know why, but I have a feeling we're going to demolish them today.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, mistakey said:

I mean he has already tied hues record for wins in 9 games

FIFY

[BleedTheClock]

I don't know why, but I have a feeling we're going to demolish them today.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

39 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I've said it before but 8 weeks was enough for people to be all in on Freddie last year; 8 weeks was enough for our FO to decide he was ready to be head coach. Few people had qualms like " Oh i don't know... I don't think we have enough data for that decisions yet." 

So, after 8 weeks and the same presser statements seeming like they were on loop, an unproductive bye week, and more underperforming .. a lot of people thought they have enough data to make a judgment on Freddie in the same way they thought they had enough data to make a judgment on him before he became a Head coach.

I mean, yeah of course, it typically takes a smaller sample size for people to be willing to commit to a player or coach than it does to move on from them.  This isn’t new or unique.

Players earn starting gigs after a few great games when given a chance due to injury for example. They don’t then typically lose a job after just a poor game, there’s some level of patience.  Posters like brownie were ready to move on from Freddie after a month and a half, which even by Browns standards is absurd.

Once you commit to Freddie being the coach, you have to give him some time to implement his system.  That’s not unique to him or anyone else. 

And to be clear, no one wanted Freddie as the HC because of his overwhelming qualifications, it was purely because he had our rookie QB playing at an elite level the last half of the year and they (we) didn’t want to lose that.

You think the fans are restless now, imagine if we’d have let Freddie walk and Baker would have started slow anyway.  Jesus, Mary and Joseph people would be calling for Dorsey’s head.

At some point you have to look at his lack of relevant experience and anticipate or at least accept that there would be some potential learning curve.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

12 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don't know why, but I have a feeling we're going to demolish them today.

Me either.

[Mind Character]

Huge loss for the Steelers tonight. I know all the jokes and how everyone on FF thought Joe was washed or hated him, but he's been playing at a crazy high level this year with the Pittsburgh beat writers singing his praises as a leader and playmaker.

He had his best game of the season last week like he was in a time machine teleporting back to himself at the height of his powers.

He had a FF; 5 PDs (10 total on the year) and all except 1 were in spectacular fashion and most in critical moments. He was also all over the field making critical tackles.

They often use Joe in catch zones when they rotate Minkah down and have him press when Minkah is either in single high spying. With Joe and Steven Nelson out (both have played huge roles in creating a forceful secondary), Mike Hilton, Cameron Sutton, and likely rookie Justin Layne (who's gotten no real snaps despite being this FFs favorite draft prospect of all time) will all be BBQ Chicken.

I had us winning before, but I didn't know Nelson was out until now when hearing that Haden is as well.. now we might really get wild on them.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Mind Character