Lamar Jackson

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

lol

What? That isn't an insult. He found the open man and let him run under it and make the catch. The Ravens had wide open guys all season, that's a good thing to have as a Raven fan. You don't want your QB making tight window throws all year that will lead to bad things no matter how good he is. I'm not going to say Jackson can beat teams exclusively with his arm he hasn't shown that yet and Ravens fans shouldn't care either way because that isn't his game. There is no need to try to worry about future debates whether he is a better player than QB X that will work itself out. You certainly don't have to laugh if someone says he throws lobs to wide open guys because he did much of the year. I wish my QB had that opportunity and succeeded with it.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, TheBeast23 said:

I guess more so buy time to open receivers up and create big plays mostly is what I was referring to. I do think he’s a talented young man. What he can do is incredible and with a few more reliable targets in the offense they are right in that game against Tenn. 

You're thinking of Russell Wilson. Lamar actually rarely makes those "freelance" plays where he scrambles and finds open people.

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

What? That isn't an insult. He found the open man and let him run under it and make the catch. The Ravens had wide open guys all season, that's a good thing to have as a Raven fan. You don't want your QB making tight window throws all year that will lead to bad things no matter how good he is. I'm not going to say Jackson can beat teams exclusively with his arm he hasn't shown that yet and Ravens fans shouldn't care either way because that isn't his game. There is no need to try to worry about future debates whether he is a better player than QB X that will work itself out. You certainly don't have to laugh if someone says he throws lobs to wide open guys because he did much of the year. I wish my QB had that opportunity and succeeded with it.

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lamar was just throwing to open dudes all season.

[Thomas5737]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

You have no clue what you're talking about if you think Lamar was just throwing to open dudes all season.

Yeah I never said "just" maybe that's what is throwing you.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah I never said "just" maybe that's what is throwing you.

"Ravens had wide open guys all season" we really didn't, and I'm kind of shocked you think we did.

[Thomas5737]

28 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

"Ravens had wide open guys all season" we really didn't, and I'm kind of shocked you think we did.

Well compared to any other team I watched this year the percentage of open receivers were high for the Ravens. That is the Lamar effect and a great thing, not sure why you would want to refute it. I hope it goes away forever and then we can both be happy.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Thomas5737

[BlaqOptic]

Wrong topic.

Edited January 13, 2020 by BlaqOptic

[MWil23]

Morning talk radio is the worst, and I'll be back later to expand on this, but I actually heard someone say "THEY HAVE TO GET LAMAR SOME HELP THERE!"

Also:

The Ravens had 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

50 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Morning talk radio is the worst, and I'll be back later to expand on this, but I actually heard someone say "THEY HAVE TO GET LAMAR SOME HELP THERE!"

Also:

The Ravens had 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

Right, but that’s only ONE dozen, sooo.....

[MWil23]

51 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Morning talk radio is the worst, and I'll be back later to expand on this, but I actually heard someone say "THEY HAVE TO GET LAMAR SOME HELP THERE!"

Also:

The Ravens had 12 Pro Bowlers.

 

To add to my comment about coming back later, here's what I mean:

The Ravens are/were so good this year because of their ability to play with 2 TE on the field virtually at all times. Their personnel advantage(s) with Andrews/Hurst in the run/pass game is incredible. If you don't put 8 in the box, you're screwed. They want their WR's on the outside to take the top off of defenses, and their entire offense is predicated on play-action passing and winning with TE mismatches.

To simply "get him some WRs" isn't how they are built, or how they should be built. Don't get me wrong, adding a guy opposite Hollywood is a great idea and I'm sure that they will do just that in this loaded 2020 WR class, but spreading you out shouldn't be what they try to do, as that's an identity and philosophy change away from what makes them who they are.

[Danand]

33 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

To add to my comment about coming back later, here's what I mean:

The Ravens are/were so good this year because of their ability to play with 2 TE on the field virtually at all times. Their personnel advantage(s) with Andrews/Hurst in the run/pass game is incredible. If you don't put 8 in the box, you're screwed. They want their WR's on the outside to take the top off of defenses, and their entire offense is predicated on play-action passing and winning with TE mismatches.

To simply "get him some WRs" isn't how they are built, or how they should be built. Don't get me wrong, adding a guy opposite Hollywood is a great idea and I'm sure that they will do just that in this loaded 2020 WR class, but spreading you out shouldn't be what they try to do, as that's an identity and philosophy change away from what makes them who they are.

Spreading the defense out has been a stable part of this offense and a quite productive one as it both gives Lamar a chance to convert over the middle as well as having more space to work with when he runs. The Titans did a great job taking away the middle of the field, which left Marquise Brown as the only wide receiver who stepped up last night, while the other options in Snead, Roberts and Boykin had rough nights. Snead is a great slot option, and roberts has been a surprisingly good addition, but neither of them are someone the other team has to gameplan for and Boykin just hasn't developed so far.

I agree they need to add a better option if they want to be able to pass the ball more, and they should be able to do it with going to compromise on their current offensive setup.

To the guy who thinks Lamar has more open wide receivers than other QB's. I can't say for certain, but I doubt he throws to more open guys than a lot of other QB's, so I don't think that is something that should be taken away from Lamars ability to throw the ball. He consistently put it right on his man in tight corners to convert

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, Danand said:

Spreading the defense out has been a stable part of this offense and a quite productive one as it both gives Lamar a chance to convert over the middle as well as having more space to work with when he runs.

...which again, revolves around putting Andrews in the slot, which is a huge personnel matchup issue for defenses, as they cannot account for this presnap.

 

[SalvadorsDeli]

17 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Lamar had a bad game. The Ravens fans pretending that he was awesome last night and not a big reason they lost are fooling themselves. 
 

That being said, he’s young and had an amazing season. It was a really bad game. He is a gimmicky kind of player, but he can have a long career playing that way. But as with most gimmicky offenses, they’ll be prone to having nightmarish performances like this.

I don't think he had an awesome game but I don't necessarily think he had a terrible one, either. Terrible is the Chargers game from last year where he flat out couldn't play for most of the day. This was just one of those days where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. We moved the ball pretty consistently in this game but the situational football was awful, between the drops, the 4th down playcalls and execution, etc. - and it was all sort of exacerbated by the team seemingly panicking as a whole and getting too down on themselves. Whereas last year there were existential questions about Lamar as a QB because of how that game went, this one just more seems a little more standard - it's just about how a good young QB can learn from failure to get better. 

The first INT more or less sums up the game as a whole. Wasn't a perfect throw from Lamar, but it hit Andrews in the hands and ultimately it's a catch that your Pro Bowl TE is expected to make. But instead he deflects it up and of course Tennessee was there to pick it off. Wherever we created any sort of opening for them, they took advantage and that's ultimately how you win any game. 

For Lamar I hope the biggest thing he takes away from this game is how he needs to grow as a leader and recognizes how people are going to look to him to set an example in games like this where things aren't going the way we expected. We needed someone on the sideline, whether it was Lamar or the coaches - to calm guys down and get them to keep playing their game, but the coaches seemed as shellshocked as any as Roman's playcalling demonstrated, and Lamar seemed too flustered/frustrated to rally guys and everyone on the same page. The 3rd quarter turnovers looked to me like a QB who stopped playing with himself and started trying to do too much, and you just can't have that in the playoffs. 

Not altogether surprising to me just based on his personality and the way his competitiveness manifests, but there was a clear difference between his demeanour and say, the way Mahomes stayed clear-eyed and rallied everyone yesterday when they were getting buried. I don't think that was the end-all difference between the two games, but it wasn't irrelevant, either. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Morning talk radio is the worst, and I'll be back later to expand on this, but I actually heard someone say "THEY HAVE TO GET LAMAR SOME HELP THERE!"

Also:

The Ravens had 12 Pro Bowlers.

I think this is a little misleading, and I think that caller is absolutely correct. The Ravens had 8 drops on Saturday. Their leading WR's are Marquise Brown (rookie who is battling through ankle injuries) and Mark Andrews (2nd year TE battling through a high ankle sprain). Outside of that, Lamar's weapons are:

Seth Roberts, Willie Snead, and Miles Boykin.

As for the Pro Bowlers, which again is a PURE popularity contest and not an indication of the talent level, let's look at who the offensive Pro Bowlers were:

• Lamar Jackson
• Mark Ingram 
• Mark Andrews
• Ronnie Stanley
• Marshal Yanda
• Patrick Ricard

Didn't mention Ricard, but Ricard played on 7 offensive snaps against the Titans. 

So overall, I would absolutely agree they need to get Lamar some help. If you can't run the ball and have to throw 50 times a game and your only hope of guys who can make plays are a rookie who is injured and a TE who is injured, that's not good. We're not devoid of talent, but "They have 12 Pro Bowlers they're LOADED with talent" is also false.

EDIT: I guess I should also elaborate here. Lamar has weapons when we're running the offense the way it's designed. However, Greg Roman and John Harbaugh abandoned that philosophy very early on in the game, thus negating any effect that Ricard/Boyle/Ingram/Edwards could have on the game, and instead relied on the TE's and WR's to get open and make plays. You saw time and time again that anyone outside of Andrews/Hollywood/Hurst (when he was targeted) couldn't do that. I agree this team isn't built to spread you out and sling it around. Ultimately though Lamar is the offense and this team is going to have to throw eventually, so getting another WR opposite of Hollywood who can be reliable (and maybe Boykin becomes this guy next year) is a must.

Edited January 13, 2020 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[El Ramster]

13 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

I don't think he had an awesome game but I don't necessarily think he had a terrible one, either. Terrible is the Chargers game from last year where he flat out couldn't play for most of the day. This was just one of those days where everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. We moved the ball pretty consistently in this game but the situational football was awful, between the drops, the 4th down playcalls and execution, etc. - and it was all sort of exacerbated by the team seemingly panicking as a whole and getting too down on themselves. Whereas last year there were existential questions about Lamar as a QB because of how that game went, this one just more seems a little more standard - it's just about how a good young QB can learn from failure to get better. 

The first INT more or less sums up the game as a whole. Wasn't a perfect throw from Lamar, but it hit Andrews in the hands and ultimately it's a catch that your Pro Bowl TE is expected to make. But instead he deflects it up and of course Tennessee was there to pick it off. Wherever we created any sort of opening for them, they took advantage and that's ultimately how you win any game. 

For Lamar I hope the biggest thing he takes away from this game is how he needs to grow as a leader and recognizes how people are going to look to him to set an example in games like this where things aren't going the way we expected. We needed someone on the sideline, whether it was Lamar or the coaches - to calm guys down and get them to keep playing their game, but the coaches seemed as shellshocked as any as Roman's playcalling demonstrated, and Lamar seemed too flustered/frustrated to rally guys and everyone on the same page. The 3rd quarter turnovers looked to me like a QB who stopped playing with himself and started trying to do too much, and you just can't have that in the playoffs. 

Not altogether surprising to me just based on his personality and the way his competitiveness manifests, but there was a clear difference between his demeanour and say, the way Mahomes stayed clear-eyed and rallied everyone yesterday when they were getting buried. I don't think that was the end-all difference between the two games, but it wasn't irrelevant, either. 

Enjoy Lamar. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

1 minute ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Enjoy Lamar. 

Thank you! I'm pretty excited to have a 23 year old MVP to build around.