Josh Allen is an ELITE QB

[raidersedge]

I give Allen a lot of credit. Having Daboll as your OC has got to be brutal. Allen is a baller.

[WizeGuy]

11 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Josh Allen's season in a nutshell:

Against teams that currently have 3 or less wins:

6 games (6-0)

108/170 63.5% 1299 7.6 YPA 10 TDs 2 Ints 101.6 PR

Against teams that currently have 4 to 6 wins:

5 games (3-2)

104/168 61.9% 1139 6.8 YPA 6 TDs 3 Ints 86.4 PR

Against teams that currently have 7 or more wins:

1 game (0-1)

13/28 46.4% 153 5.5 YPA 0 TDs 3 Ints 24.0 PR

He's played a ridiculously soft schedule and feasted on the bad portions of it. It would be a kindness to call Josh Allen average.

This man again! How's Allen 's accuracy issues you were clamoring about in September turned out? Oh, that's right, he's ranked as one of the top QBs throwing the intermediate pass. Sounds like an inaccurate QB to me.

 

Allen has proven you wrong so bad thus far, and that's why you cant help yourself but jump into any thread with his name attached to it. 

 

Here's a thought- how about you post Allen's stats since the Pat's game. You know- since he's a young QB developing at a rapid pace? Did you see what he did against the Broncos D? How about the Cowboys defense? Both of whom are ranked top-10 defenses. I doubt you cared to watch, though, because being proven wrong apparently hits your pride way too deep.

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

I know.  But @jrry32was defending Goff not too long ago acting like he was still a good QB.  And now he's saying it would be kind to call Josh Allen average.  I'm just wondering how someone can defend Goff as a quality QB but disregard Allen?  Unless you're just being a homer it makes no sense.

Goff is a good QB having a bad year. It happens.

5 hours ago, VanS said:

LOL.  If Josh Allen is average what does that make Goff?

This year? Bad. However, Jared Goff will bounce back. You're pointing at Allen's play right now as why he's elite. Goff produced like Tom Brady over 2017 and 2018. Josh Allen is producing like Colin Kaepernick right now. As I said it would be a kindness to call Allen average. It amuses me that you can't defend it.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

This man again! How's Allen 's accuracy issues you were clamoring about in September turned out? Oh, that's right, he's ranked as one of the top QBs throwing the intermediate pass. Sounds like an inaccurate QB to me.

How are his accuracy issues? Still a major problem that holds his game back. Josh Allen has one of the worst completion percentages among starting QBs in the NFL despite playing what might be the NFL's worst schedule to this point.

Quote

Allen has proven you wrong so bad thus far, and that's why you cant help yourself but jump into any thread with his name attached to it. 

Playing like Colin Kaepernick hasn't proven me wrong. Nice try.

Quote

Here's a thought- how about you post Allen's stats since the Pat's game. You know- since he's a young QB developing at a rapid pace? Did you see what he did against the Broncos D? How about the Cowboys defense? Both of whom are ranked top-10 defenses. I doubt you cared to watch, though, because being proven wrong apparently hits your pride way too deep.

Here's a thought, how about I don't? The Patriots are the only team he's played all year with 7 or more wins. Go try your cherry picking elsewhere.

[Kmart128]

11 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

How are his accuracy issues? Still a major problem that holds his game back. Josh Allen has one of the worst completion percentages among starting QBs in the NFL despite playing what might be the NFL's worst schedule to this point.

Playing like Colin Kaepernick hasn't proven me wrong. Nice try.

Here's a thought, how about I don't? The Patriots are the only team he's played all year with 7 or more wins. Go try your cherry picking elsewhere.

His accuracy is so improved... he is only in his 2nd year and improved from 52.8% to 61.5%... yes its not a full season yet but he has played more games this year than last year.

Not to mention his TD to INT ratio is much improved. 5:6 TD to INT ratio last year to 12:6 (2:1) This year.

That is significant improvement. Is he perfect yet... no but if he continues to make these kind of strides he will be border line elite.

Dont see Kaepernick comparison at all... i see a lot of Steve McNair 

Yes Patriots are the only team theyve played and if Allen didnt get injured in the game it could have been a different outcome.

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by marshawn lynch

[Forge]

9 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

How are his accuracy issues? Still a major problem that holds his game back. Josh Allen has one of the worst completion percentages among starting QBs in the NFL despite playing what might be the NFL's worst schedule to this point.

In fairness to Allen, he is at least failing in a different way this year in that regard. Last year he was dead last in throws between 10-20 yards down field, now he's top 10 in that regard. But his deep ball accuracy has completely tanked. I'm not sure what that means for him long term, but I do like to see that he's changed somewhat as a passer, progressed in some way while failing in a new way. I actually think that is kind of good. 

10 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Playing like Colin Kaepernick hasn't proven me wrong. Nice try.

The funny thing is, Kaep is kind of my comp for him and has been since he was a prospect. I do think that people lay too much at the feet of the accuracy thing. I care more about effectiveness, and his feet matter in that regard. He's not going to be an elite quarterback in my opinion, particularly from the pocket. But I definitely think that with regards to effectiveness, he can be a "good" quarterback across the league. I remember switching from Kaep to Hoyer and fighting people in the 49er forum about why we were worse. A lot of people were excited because Hoyer was the better "pocket quarterback", completely disregarding their actual effectiveness playing the position. Drove me up the wall. 

Kaep was never a great quarterback, but he was a highly effective one. If the Bills can get that type of production from Allen just as a baseline, I think that they are doing okay. Obviously may not be as long term as some of the other true pocket guys, but I think it could last a while. 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

Dont see Kaepernick comparison at all... i see a lot of Steve McNair 

 

Oh, there's definitely a lot of Kaep there in my opinion. I just don't think it's the worst thing ever like a lot of people do. 

[jrry32]

8 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

Dont see Kaepernick comparison at all... i see a lot of Steve McNair 

I do. Tall QBs with rocket arms and great mobility who are/were maddeningly inconsistent in terms of their accuracy and anticipation.

Edited November 29, 2019 by jrry32

[Kmart128]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Oh, there's definitely a lot of Kaep there in my opinion. I just don't think it's the worst thing ever like a lot of people do. 

I think Allen isnt nearly as fast. Much more physical runner than Kaep. And both have strong arms but Allens deep ball just hasnt been there this year. He has been hitting those short to intermediate routes to Cole Beasley  and John Brown. I dont think Kaepernick  was ever this guy at those throws.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Oh, there's definitely a lot of Kaep there in my opinion. I just don't think it's the worst thing ever like a lot of people do. 

I'm not saying it's the worst thing ever. Kaepernick vacillated between being a below average and above average starter under Harbaugh, generally settling around average. He was effective enough for a team with a strong defense. 

[Kmart128]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I do. Tall QBs with rocket arms and great mobility who are/were maddeningly inconsistent in terms of their accuracy and anticipation.

Well McNair i think is a better comparison. He is shorter but running style and speed is more similar to Allen. McNair was a a career 60% passer as well... Allen still has room to improve but is currently a tad better than that.

[iknowcool]

31 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

His accuracy is so improved... he is only in his 2nd year and improved from 52.8% to 61.5%... yes its not a full season yet but he has played more games this year than last year.

I can't really say if his accuracy is improved or not because I didn't see a lot of Allen last year or this year, but CMP% isn't really a good measure of a QB's accuracy.  It's more reflective of the nature of the offense and the QB's decision making more than anything.   

Thus his CMP% is probably a result of him simply making smarter passes and/or not attempting to go downfield as often, as much (if not more-so) than him becoming more accurate.  According to NFL's Next Gen Stats, his intended air yards was 11 in 2018 (led the league) vs 9 this year.  That's a big difference.  

Edited November 29, 2019 by iknowcool

[Forge]

14 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

Well McNair i think is a better comparison. He is shorter but running style and speed is more similar to Allen. McNair was a a career 60% passer as well... Allen still has room to improve but is currently a tad better than that.

This completely ignores the context of the league though. 60% in the late 90's and early 2000's is vastly different than now. In 2000, Mcnair completed 62.6% of his passes, and that fifth highest in the NFL.  Complete 62.6% of your passes nowadays and you're in the bottom 25% of the league. The one year where he was bad, relative to his peers, was 1999 (56%, like 23rd). Even in 1998, he completed 58% of his passes and wasn't even below the league average mark (13th). And those were his first three years in the league as a full time starter. 2000 on, he was largely a 60%+ passer, and in the context of the league he played in, was 5th, 8th, 16th, 9th, 14th, and 7th (didn't include 2 seasons in baltimore where he didn't qualify). So he was never really worse than league average with regards to accuracy and was often better. 

 

[WizeGuy]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

How are his accuracy issues? Still a major problem that holds his game back. Josh Allen has one of the worst completion percentages among starting QBs in the NFL despite playing what might be the NFL's worst schedule to this point.

Playing like Colin Kaepernick hasn't proven me wrong. Nice try.

Here's a thought, how about I don't? The Patriots are the only team he's played all year with 7 or more wins. Go try your cherry picking elsewhere.

Still waiting for you to compare these last 6 weeks with the first 6 weeks. 

 

It isnt a cherry picked stat; it's called development, and Josh Allen has been improving rapidly this year. That is a fact.

 

And Kaepernick is his floor; Rodgers-esque is his ceiling. Time will tell where he settles.

Edited November 29, 2019 by WizeGuy

[bigbadbuff]

Point for everyone is we won’t know how good he is for another couple of years. Goff and Wentz were golden children, now Goff looks like the second worst QB in the league (trubs) and Wentz is inconsistent AF. Baker was the next best thing, then he’s a turnover machine. It’s going to take a good 4-5 years to know what they truly are. I’m good with seeing a 2nd year QB progress to a middle of the road starter for now. I mean if we all said Josh Allen was a middle of the road guy in year two everyone would deem that a success. Keep growing, and keep improving. That’s all we can ask for. Nothing more, nothing less.

We can’t ding him for having a good line like the Jets fan here is doing when he wasn’t given the benefit of the doubt last year with a bottom 5 offensive line and being forced to play hero ball.

He went from having a bum offensive line, a washed Shady McCoy, Robert foster and Zay Jones to what some (Jets fan) is calling a great cast? I mean i love me some John Brown Beasley and a rookie Singletary but come on, that’s not a top tier weapon group, not even close.

but alas, it’s NFL Gen so everything is black and white