Josh Allen is an ELITE QB

[dtait93]

6 minutes ago, VanS said:

You really gonna try and include his rookie year?  Talk about reaching.

In Year 2 Buffalo is 9-3 and their defense is leading a team few expected to make the playoffs.  I call that elite. 

Fixed it for you

[NJC33]

7 minutes ago, VanS said:

He is elite because he's producing with almost no talent around him on the offensive side of the ball.  As I said earlier, the Bills have by far the worst skill position players of any current playoff team.  The fact they are even scoring as much as they are right now is a testament to Josh Allen's talent.

The Bills need to get him as true #1 WR.

He is not elite, not even close. 

Your willingness to completely ignore the OL when evaluating the talent on offense is comical. Having a good OL is FAR more impactful than having good skill position guys - Kudos to the Bills FO for identifying this in the offseason. 

[ILoveTheVikings]

15 hours ago, VanS said:

https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/1200226156798185473

Only Lamar Jackson is playing better right now.  Not bad for the two QBs in the 2018 draft most people thought didn't have the "accuracy" to succeed in the NFL.

Hold on.

So only Lamar Jackson is playing better then Allen?

So that makes Josh Allen better then Watson which then makes Allen better then Tom Brady ever was?

???

[Elky]

QB A: 123/203 (60.5%), 1469 yards (7.23 YPA), 11 TD, 1 INT

QB B: 98/138 (71.0%), 1276 yards (9.24 YPA), 10 TD, 4 INT

These numbers are from week 7 until now.

A is Josh Allen. B is Ryan Tannehill. Do you think Ryan Tannehill is an ELITE QB?

Edited November 29, 2019 by Elky

[Jlowe22]

Bills Offense:  #23 in points/drive.

Bills defense:  #3 in points/drive.

[Jlowe22]

9 minutes ago, ILoveTheVikings said:

Hold on.

So only Lamar Jackson is playing better then Allen?

So that makes Josh Allen better then Watson which then makes Allen better then Tom Brady ever was?

???

If Allen had BB, he'd get 8 rings.

[SmittyBacall]

18 minutes ago, VanS said:

You really gonna try and include his rookie year?  Talk about reaching.

In Year 2 he's 9-3 and leading a team few expected to make the playoffs.  I call that elite. 

So I assume Jimmy Garropolo is elite then? He's 16-3 since joining San Francisco. Why isn't he part of this discussion?

This is a terrible take; up there with Josh Dobbs.

[NJC33]

31 minutes ago, VanS said:

LOL.

As I thought.  You're just a homer who is mad your team picked the wrong guy in the draft. 

Darnold will eventually be good.  But Josh Allen will always be better.  He simply more talented.

Darnold // Allen over the last four games entering this week: 

• Darnold (3-1) - 66.4%, 10 TD, 2 INTs, 8.74 YPA, 108.1 passer rating 
• Allen (3-1) - 60.5%, 10 TD, 1 INTs, 7.41 YPA, 98.7 passer rating 

Wouldn't blame either fanbase for preferring their guy at this point. Both are playing good football right now, neither are playing better than everyone besides Jackson.  "He is simply more talented" In terms of arm talent? Sure, he's got probably the strongest arm in the league, otherwise? It ain't that simple. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by NJC33

[HoboRocket]

On 6/20/2019 at 8:51 AM, HoboRocket said:

The question isn't "Who's the better QB?" It isn't "Who will have the better sophomore season?" It's "Which QB improves more on their sophomore season?" 

Easily Josh Allen. He has a lower benchmark than Sam Darnold. I thought Josh Allen's best games were more impressive than Darnolds'. He had some pretty low lows as a passer, though. That makes him a more likely candidate for improvement across the board. Allen had a rating of 67.9 as a rookie. Darnold had a rating of 77.6. Yes, that means that Darnold was a more advanced passer, but it also means that Darnold needs to hit a higher rating than Allen needs to in order to show improvement. Allen could not an 87, which is an okay rating, and at that point, he's improved by about 20 points. If Darnold hits a 92, he's only improved by 15. JOSH ALLEN DOESNT NEED TO BE AS GOOD AS DARNOLD TO IMPROVE MORE THAN HIM.

With this guy coming into the league, I said that his worst case scenario was high-character Blake Bortles. His ceiling is best QB in the league. 

Josh Allen was higher on my list as far as character goes than Darnold heading into the draft. He's always been a harder worker. That goes in his favor for improving more than Darnold.

Josh Allen gained a starting-caliber tackle in free agency in Ty Nsekhe. He's been a stud as a fill-in while playing for Washington. He also got Mitch Morse, a fantastic center who was very good for the Kansas City Chiefs during Mahomes' run at MVP. Allen also gained Spencer Long, who was good at times in Washington and terrible at times with the Jets. He got Quinton Spain, who was pretty solid for the most part with the Titans over the past three seasons. He got Cody Ford via the draft, who could be a really great guard or maybe even tackle for the Bills.

As far as weapons go, the Bills spent a third-round pick on Devin Singletary, who was one of my favorite runningbacks this year. They also drafted TE Dawson Knox, who is an athletic freak and played very well at Ole Miss, but was criminally underused. They signed John Brown, who is yet another dynamic deep threat to add to the Bills' roster who has flashed as a #1 WR at times throughout his career, as well as Cole Beasley, who is a fine checkdown piece. 

Overall, Allen has the most improved supporting cast. He's the harder worker. He has the higher athletic ceiling. And, to go with all of that, he has a lower benchmark for improvement. All signs point to both improving, but Allen will likely improve by a greater amount. We have yet to see who will actually be better in year two.

 

@VanS was bullish on Josh Allen heading into the season:

On 6/16/2019 at 4:34 PM, VanS said:

Josh Allen will be one of the leading candidates for league MVP this year.  So easily him.

I like Darnold too.  He's gonna be a really good franchise QB.  But Josh Allen is on another level.  He'll be on that Patrick Mahomes tier.

 

 

 

Anyways, I was big on Josh Allen being the league's most improved QB this year. And he was my top-rated QB last year, just ahead of Lamar Jackson, then Rosen, then Darnold, and lastly Mayfield as the QBs that I had rated as 1st-rounders. Josh Allen was an elite blue-chip prospect in my book.

On 3/29/2019 at 7:05 PM, HoboRocket said:

[On the elite tier of the 2019 Draft Class]

Last year I DID have an elite tier with nine members - Quentin Nelson, QB Josh Allen, Saquon Barkley, Derwin James, DaRon Payne, Vita Vea, Bradley Chubb, Roquan Smith, and Tremaine Edmunds.

2017, it was Mahomes, Garrett, Johnathan Allen, Jamal Adams, Marshon Lattimore, OJ Howard, and Malik Hooker.

This year there are four, in my opinion, though Devin White, TJ Hockenson, and Montez Sweat come close. 

 

On 2/7/2019 at 3:34 PM, HoboRocket said:

Highest upside prospect in the past two drafts has been named Josh Allen.

 

On 3/10/2019 at 6:19 PM, HoboRocket said:

[accidentally quoted the wrong thread]

 

Now, we can't forget that there's still a lot of football to be played in these guys' careers, but he's my one of my favorite football players, as is the other Josh Allen. The Bills have an elite athlete with elite character marks and as high of a ceiling as I've ever seen. We'll see how far his actual progression goes. 

Also, while many people will be quick to point out that Lamar Jackson may peak RIGHT NOW and fade in his late 20s/early 30s due to being a running threat at QB, Josh Allen plays a much more physical brand of football than Lamar Jackson does. Allen is more similar to early career Big Ben or Cam Newton with how he plays, where Lamar avoids contact for the most part. The Bills ask Allen to run on interior with designed QB runs, where Lamar rarely does so and usually has 3 blockers in the backfield when he does. 

I'm a HUGE fan of Josh Allen, and if you look at advanced stats, he's been able to take what was once his biggest weakness as a passer (the short game) and turn it into his greatest strength. He's actually been much more effective in the short passing game, meaning throws 1-10 yards downfield this year, than any other distance. He used to routinely miss guys in the flat or in slants. It was ugly. 

He's not elite right now, but he is very much improved and I expect him to continue improving due to his work ethic, which is off the charts, according to all reports. It'll be very interesting to see where he goes.

 

EDIT: the first quote is from the Darnold VS Allen Sophomore Strides thread from the summer

Edited November 29, 2019 by HoboRocket

[NYJets4716]

1 minute ago, NJC33 said:

Darnold // Allen over the last four games entering this week: 

• Darnold (3-1) - 66.4%, 10 TD, 2 INTs, 8.74 YPA, 108.1 passer rating 
• Allen (3-1) - 60.5%, 10 TD, 1 INTs, 8.43 YPA, 98.7 passer rating 

You could make an argument in favor of either Allen or Darnold, wouldn't blame either fanbase for preferring their guy at this point. Both are playing good football right now, neither are playing better than everyone besides Jackson.  "He is simply more talented" In terms of arm talent? Sure, he's got probably the strongest arm in the league, otherwise? It ain't that simple. 

And put Darnold is on a far worse team with tons of injuries. Darnold is asked much more of and is asked to win games vs not to lose.

Anyone who doesn't think Darnold has arm talent hasn't watched, the guy is upl there with it. Makes mahomes throws weekly without the hype, guys draped on him throwing perfect throws into tight coverage.  Allen may have a tad stronger arm, but Darnold had more arm talent in terms of total package.  Darnolds issue is hes on a bad team and is pressured at a higher rate than any QB.  When given time he destroys defenses. But when hes playing from behind , getting hit constantly he starts forcing bad passes trying to get them back into it.ever since darnold marched into the office and took control of the offense hes 3-0 . 

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

Winning has always been the barometer of judging who is elite in sports.  Especially at the QB position. 

Like Tim Tebow. 

[SmittyBacall]

27 minutes ago, VanS said:

He is elite because he's producing with almost no talent around him on the offensive side of the ball.

I don't understand this narrative either. Did you not watch the game yesterday? He was consistently throwing to wide open receivers all over the field. Beasley was shredding whoever lined up on him. It doesn't matter if none of them are probowlers or household names, the Bills coordinator is doing an excellent job scheming them open, and the receivers are creating separation. Period. 

And this isn't to discredit how well Allen played either, because it's obvious he's playing well and finding his form. He's consistently finding the open man and delivering a good ball. But to call out the Bills receivers like they're somehow hampering Allen is ridiculous. They aren't. From the play calling, to the players, to the scheme, the Bills offense is a well oiled machine right now. To lay that only at the feet of Allen is completely disingenuous and goes to show how ridiculous this thread is. 

 

[NJC33]

2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I don't understand this narrative either. Did you not watch the game yesterday? He was consistently throwing to wide open receivers all over the field. Beasley was shredding whoever lined up on him. It doesn't matter if none of them are probowlers or household names, the Bills coordinator is doing an excellent job scheming them open, and the receivers are creating separation. Period. 

And this isn't to discredit how well Allen played either, because it's obvious he's playing well and finding his form. He's consistently finding the open man and delivering a good ball. But to call out the Bills receivers like they're somehow hampering Allen is ridiculous. They aren't. From the play calling, to the players, to the scheme, the Bills offense is a well oiled machine right now. To lay that only at the feet of Allen is completely disingenuous and goes to show how ridiculous this thread is. 

 

Very well said. 

This isn't a Deshaun Watson situation where he's been so obviously forced to carry his team to victories over the years. The Bills roster is well constructed and McDermott is a damn good coach. Offensive line has always been more indicative of quarterback success anyways, so calling out Allens skill position guys without giving credit to the OL is so clearly forcing a narrative. 

[Nex_Gen]

This thread is embarrassing...

[HoboRocket]

11 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I don't understand this narrative either. Did you not watch the game yesterday? He was consistently throwing to wide open receivers all over the field. Beasley was shredding whoever lined up on him. It doesn't matter if none of them are probowlers or household names, the Bills coordinator is doing an excellent job scheming them open, and the receivers are creating separation. Period. 

And this isn't to discredit how well Allen played either, because it's obvious he's playing well and finding his form. He's consistently finding the open man and delivering a good ball. But to call out the Bills receivers like they're somehow hampering Allen is ridiculous. They aren't. From the play calling, to the players, to the scheme, the Bills offense is a well oiled machine right now. To lay that only at the feet of Allen is completely disingenuous and goes to show how ridiculous this thread is. 

 

I agree 100%. I used to live in AZ. I watched every single Cardinals' game from 2014-17 and John Brown was their #1 receiver for long stretches. And that's on a team that threw the football a lot and had plenty of talent, at least during the 14-16 run. And he was good for the Ravens last year. He just couldn't gel with Lamar later on in the season. And part of that may be that Lamar just wasnt good at throwing an NFL football last season. During the Ravens-Rams game, they talked about how Lamar said that he was really innacurate last year just because he was learning how to throw an NFL football, which is much larger and shaped somewhat differently. Anyways, John Brown is a really good wideout that spent a few years in the middle of his career injured and dealing with sickle cell disorder, that prevented him from playing. Cole Beasley was the most-efficient receiver for Dallas for years dating back to like 2015. Devin Singletary, as I said in the Darnold VS Allen thread, was one of my favorite RBs this draft class. Dawson Knox is an athletic freak. Frank Gore is one of the steadiest RBs in league history. Allen DOES have a better supporting cast than Darnold.