Best Defense ever?

[Jlowe22]

17 minutes ago, Danger said:

I mean. Lets look at Joe Montana for example. People still rate him at #3 all time but he wouldn't even be a top 5 guy today. (probably) 

Yes, and this is why I don't like comparing across eras.  Even dominance relative to peers doesn't tell the whole story, because the farther back you go, the less refined everything was, not to mention the pool of available athletes was much smaller.  

[MrOaktown_56]

The way the seahawks defense dominated the broncos historic offense has to play into the comparison?

[seminoles1]

If we are going to discredit old teams like the 1985 Bears, then why even bring up the 2000 Ravens?  The offenses they faced were COMPLETELY different than what the recent Seahawks and Broncos defenses have faced and there's just as long of a time gap between the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens as there is between the 2000 Ravens and 2015 Broncos.

Where's the line?

[Iamcanadian]

4 hours ago, Danger said:

They still wouldn't be all that amazing in today's game though. "Different Era" yeah but the game has come a long way since then, in general the players have ALL gotten better by huge leaps and bounds. 

This is rubbish, put those players in today's game and pay them current salaries and they would be just as talented now as they were then. Lots of those old timers had to work in the off season because they were paid peanuts, so they could not train year round and had to work themselves into condition as the season progressed, but the talent was every bit as good if not better, since there were far less teams playing, half as many, which meant every player who got to start, had to be much better than an average player today.

A lot of players who star in the NFL today, would not be able to play in those other era's when you had to be really tough to survive the head shots that were allowed back then. Half the receivers in the game today, wouldn't had the guts needed to play WR in those eras. Even OT's took head shots at the snap as well, to get them off their positioning and you really think playing in today's game where no head shots are allowed, would really be a challenge.

As for Joe Montana, he would be a star today and certainly a top 5 QB without a doubt, His WR's and TE's had to put up with bump and run all over the field not just for 5 yards like in today's game, they had to fight DB's physically to get open unlike today's WR's and also had to worry about head shots after they caught the ball and you think those WR's would not have a field day in today's game???

Most players back then came from the farms and coal mines and were as tough as nails. If they could have trained all year, they could have added the weight players carry today, the talent was every bit as good as you see today. H...mmm, Jimmy Brown weighed in at 240lbs. and ran a 4.30 40 and you think he couldn't play today and those defensive stars who had to stop him would be less in today's game. I do not think so.

[Jlowe22]

If you're gonna claim old guys would have as much success today due to better training, then it's just as true the new guys would succeed in the past due to having grown up in a "tougher" environment.  

Truth is, it's impossible to compare different eras, and always will be.  

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Jlowe22 said:

If you're gonna claim old guys would have as much success today due to better training, then it's just as true the new guys would succeed in the past due to having grown up in a "tougher" environment.  

Truth is, it's impossible to compare different eras, and always will be.  

Yeah exactly. People say the same stuff about the NBA with regards to handchecking and hard fouls.  

[Iamcanadian]

1 hour ago, Jlowe22 said:

If you're gonna claim old guys would have as much success today due to better training, then it's just as true the new guys would succeed in the past due to having grown up in a "tougher" environment.  

Truth is, it's impossible to compare different eras, and always will be.  

I agree, it is almost impossible to compare different eras, but to say past HoFers couldn't play in today's game is rubbish, they had to be far tougher to survive the rules of their era than players today are required to play by. Most of them would relish playing by today's rules where the NFL has reduced the fear factor by at least 50% of the way the game was played back then. No head shots, strict rules on how you can block a defensive player, limted bump and run for DB's, no stickum allowed on the hands of defensive players and there were zero rules protecting a QB from getting mugged on every play, and on and on.

It is the same in hockey, I met a former Detroit Red Wing defenseman and he told me a story of what happened to him in his 1st start. He missed a check and had to scramble back on defense to make up for his mistake and Gordie Howe, his HoF teammate skated by him and elbowed him in the teeth, knocking out a number of them and said to him, if you want to stay in this league, you had better finish your checks or you will not last long. 

Would you ever see that happening in today's game, I do not think so. Players from the past were tough as nails, they had to be to survive in their era, because there were far fewer jobs to be had, so please do not suggest they could not play today, with rules that have taken an awful lot of the violence out of both sports. Players from today game would have just as hard a time adjusting to the rules of the past, if not more so, than the past generations would have adjusting to the modern game. The modern game is simply far less violent than the game of the past. I can remember a time when every rookie was tested by opponents to see if he had the guts to play well after being violently blocked on every play, they tested players mettle back then under rules that did little to protect players and you had to be tough to survive. Many, many players dropped by the wayside after having their guts tested, because they could not handle the extreme violence allowed by past rules and I wonder how many of today's players could handle it as well.

[AkronsWitness]

1. 2000 Ravens

2. 1985 Bears

3. 2015 Broncos

4. 2002 Bucs

5. 2013 Seahawks

[El Ramster]

On 9/14/2017 at 10:32 PM, Ragnarok said:

00 Ravens.  

I mean...they dominated all year and won a SB with arguably the worst SB-winning QB ever.  Even 2nd year Big Ben and the corpse of Peyton were better than Dilfer.  

They got lit up by the Jags.. Lies.. 

[indifference]

31 minutes ago, El ramster said:

They got lit up by the Jags.. Lies.. 

99 Bucs shut down the GSOT in the NFCCG. #1 all time

[Jlowe22]

8 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

I agree, it is almost impossible to compare different eras, but to say past HoFers couldn't play in today's game is rubbish, they had to be far tougher to survive the rules of their era than players today are required to play by. Most of them would relish playing by today's rules where the NFL has reduced the fear factor by at least 50% of the way the game was played back then. No head shots, strict rules on how you can block a defensive player, limted bump and run for DB's, no stickum allowed on the hands of defensive players and there were zero rules protecting a QB from getting mugged on every play, and on and on.

It is the same in hockey, I met a former Detroit Red Wing defenseman and he told me a story of what happened to him in his 1st start. He missed a check and had to scramble back on defense to make up for his mistake and Gordie Howe, his HoF teammate skated by him and elbowed him in the teeth, knocking out a number of them and said to him, if you want to stay in this league, you had better finish your checks or you will not last long. 

Would you ever see that happening in today's game, I do not think so. Players from the past were tough as nails, they had to be to survive in their era, because there were far fewer jobs to be had, so please do not suggest they could not play today, with rules that have taken an awful lot of the violence out of both sports. Players from today game would have just as hard a time adjusting to the rules of the past, if not more so, than the past generations would have adjusting to the modern game. The modern game is simply far less violent than the game of the past. I can remember a time when every rookie was tested by opponents to see if he had the guts to play well after being violently blocked on every play, they tested players mettle back then under rules that did little to protect players and you had to be tough to survive. Many, many players dropped by the wayside after having their guts tested, because they could not handle the extreme violence allowed by past rules and I wonder how many of today's players could handle it as well.

The thing is, athletes really do get better with time.  Some of that is training, nutrition, and environment,  if not most of it, but some of it is simply more people alive today, greater chance freak athletes will be born.

And I hate to say it, but when you go really far back, most of those guys weren't competing against blacks.  That's kinda a big deal when trying to rank them against modern athletes.

For these, and many other reasons, I don't like to compare different eras, and I roll my eyes when a top ten QB list has both Otto Graham and Tom Brady on it. Graham was the greatest of his era, Brady is the greatest of his.  Let's just leave it at that.

[TXsteeler]

How quickly everybody in this thread forgot about the 2008 Steelers.

 

Total Yards Allowed Per game

2008 Steelers: 237.2

2015 Broncos: 283.1

2014 Seahawks: 267.1

2013 Seahawks: 273.6

 

Total Pass Yards per game

2008 Steelers: 156.9

2015 Broncos: 199.6

2014 Seahawks: 185.9

2013 Seahawks: 172.0

 

Total Rush Yards per game

2008 Steelers: 80.2

2015 Broncos: 83.6

2014 Seahawks: 81.5

2013 Seahawks: 101.6

 

Total points per game

2008 Steelers: 13.9

2015 Broncos: 18.5

2014 Seahawks: 15.9

2013 Seahawks: 14.4

 

Sacks

2008 Steelers: 51

2015 Broncos: 52

2014 Seahawks: 37

2013 Seahawks: 44

 

Interceptions

2008 Steelers: 20

2015 Broncos: 14

2014 Seahawks: 13

2013 Seahawks: 28

 

 

Forced Fumble Recoveries

2008 Steelers: 14

2015 Broncos: 13

2014 Seahawks: 10

2013 Seahawks: 11

[MWil23]

Pretty obvious answer here:

 

[Buddyboy]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:53 PM, Danger said:

They still wouldn't be all that amazing in today's game though. "Different Era" yeah but the game has come a long way since then, in general the players have ALL gotten better by huge leaps and bounds. 

True. Part of the problem with concussions is that even players from the 1960s were more normally proportioned and didn't work out year round.

[AkronsWitness]

7 hours ago, Buddyboy said:

True. Part of the problem with concussions is that even players from the 1960s were more normally proportioned and didn't work out year round.

I agree, the problem is that it was also a completely different style of football back then as well compared to 2005-present. Do you think the defenses in the 70s and 80s could defend the pass nearly as well as defenses like the 2013 Seahawks and 2015 Broncos did today? No. Not even a chance on this earth if the 85 Bears had to lineup against the Packers spread offense could they keep up with Aaron Rodgers. They would get annihilated through the air.

Players and the game have progressed past the point of competently comparing eras. The only way to really compare them is how dominant they were against their own competition.