Moving On To 2020/2021.

[swede700]

I sort of follow the logic, except that prior to the change in the CBA which meant the veteran players got less than the rookies coming in, that didn't necessarily affect the style of play.  What has affected the style of play moreso than anything is the style of play at the college level, in conjunction with the lack of offseason training of the offensive linemen under the new CBA.  Since the proliferation of the spread offense at the college level, offensive linemen don't come out of college with a lot of blocking technique, so that gives rise to the QBs needing to be more mobile and having to get rid of the ball quicker, which tends to lead to more conservative play (which is why Norv's offense no longer was effective).  So, in the end, I think it has more to do with college offenses than necessarily the cap, which may be somewhat of a factor, but not a lot.  

[swede700]

2 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

Maybe. Hard to predict. Andy Reid is more conservative than Zimmer in those situations. Yet, he chose to go for it yesterday. 

Agreed.  We have no idea how Zimmer would have reacted in that type of situation, since he really hasn't been.  The only thing I know is that Denny wouldn't have gone for it, as he had been in that situation.  That was out of character for Andy Reid, as was evidenced by the stat that either Aikman or Buck indicated last night, as the Chiefs had gone for it on 4th down less than any other team in the league.

[MikeT14]

TCMD update

For those of you that have seen or run across TCMD before in the GM Mock Drafts, I have been managing the Vikings offseason. Not much has happened so far, but wanted to give you all a glimpse.

I've extended Kirk Cousins. I think this makes the most sense, and it freed up a little cap space for me.

I have cut Joseph, David Morgan, and Rhodes. I was able to move Griffen for a 6th rounder and avoid cutting him. I basically flipped the other 6th rounder for Montae Nicholson. I need to let Sendejo and the other guy walk, so Montae can be the backup safety.

Anthony Harris has been franchised.

Reiff and Diggs were restructured. Reiff is moving to Guard... or possibly RT. Need to see how things shake out. I have our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 4ths, a 6th, and 4 7ths. 

Heading into FA/draft, I will need to address both lines, get a backup for Kirk, shore up CB, and resign some core players. Lot of work to do, but I've given myself a way I think. 

Note, I am (obviously) not a Vikings fan. A lot of you will hate what I do I'm sure. Working with what I have while trying to challenge myself with this team. It's a good team that I want to help get over the top. 

[swede700]

18 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

TCMD update

For those of you that have seen or run across TCMD before in the GM Mock Drafts, I have been managing the Vikings offseason. Not much has happened so far, but wanted to give you all a glimpse.

I've extended Kirk Cousins. I think this makes the most sense, and it freed up a little cap space for me.

I have cut Joseph, David Morgan, and Rhodes. I was able to move Griffen for a 6th rounder and avoid cutting him. I basically flipped the other 6th rounder for Montae Nicholson. I need to let Sendejo and the other guy walk, so Montae can be the backup safety.

Anthony Harris has been franchised.

Reiff and Diggs were restructured. Reiff is moving to Guard... or possibly RT. Need to see how things shake out. I have our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 2 4ths, a 6th, and 4 7ths. 

Heading into FA/draft, I will need to address both lines, get a backup for Kirk, shore up CB, and resign some core players. Lot of work to do, but I've given myself a way I think. 

Note, I am (obviously) not a Vikings fan. A lot of you will hate what I do I'm sure. Working with what I have while trying to challenge myself with this team. It's a good team that I want to help get over the top. 

Those moves aren't necessarily unreasonable.  We'll have to see in real life whether Diggs is moved, rather than restructured.  I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they might choose to move him to save on the headache.  While he has $9M in dead money, they would save $5.5M by moving him and $15M over the next years after that, so it might be worth it to take the hit now.  

[MikeT14]

Just now, swede700 said:

Those moves aren't necessarily unreasonable.  We'll have to see in real life whether Diggs is moved, rather than restructured.  I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they might choose to move him to save on the headache.  While he has $9M in dead money, they would save $5.5M by moving him and $15M over the next years after that, so it might be worth it to take the hit now.  

The WR market out there has been relatively thin, and I got crap for offers. Since this is more or less a one year thing also, it's easier for me to help now and hit the future  

[PrplChilPill]

3 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Maybe. Hard to predict. Andy Reid is more conservative than Zimmer in those situations. Yet, he chose to go for it yesterday. 

What do you think he'd do? 

[Dolmonite26]

@MikeT14 I think you're making a lot of good moves that are very similar to what I want to see the Vikings do.

What's your cap situation at now? I ran a situation similar to what you've done: cut Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen. Restructure Reiff to guard money and extended Kirk and Harris. And I ended up with about 25M in cap space.

I think it's very possible that I messed some of the numbers up lol, but my next move in that scenario (and yours) would be an aggressive pursuit of Byron Jones and hopefully a ~6M APY deal for Mack Alexander. The team needs cornerback help obviously and with the learning curve in Zim defense the draft isnt the place to go for that if they want to get better right away.

[Hyperborean]

3 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Maybe. Hard to predict. Andy Reid is more conservative than Zimmer in those situations. Yet, he chose to go for it yesterday. 

He might have been with Alex Smith but not with Mahomes.  You'd be out of your mind to handcuff that kid right now, and Reed is certainly smart enough to let him have opportunities to shine.  

[MikeT14]

35 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said:

@MikeT14 I think you're making a lot of good moves that are very similar to what I want to see the Vikings do.

What's your cap situation at now? I ran a situation similar to what you've done: cut Joseph, Rhodes, Griffen. Restructure Reiff to guard money and extended Kirk and Harris. And I ended up with about 25M in cap space.

I think it's very possible that I messed some of the numbers up lol, but my next move in that scenario (and yours) would be an aggressive pursuit of Byron Jones and hopefully a ~6M APY deal for Mack Alexander. The team needs cornerback help obviously and with the learning curve in Zim defense the draft isnt the place to go for that if they want to get better right away.

That’s close because after franchising Harris I was floating around 11 I think. It’s going to be easier for me to retain Waynes but I am looking at all CB options. 

[Hyperborean]

3 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

Stay with me here, as I lay out my theory...which more than likely is farfetched!  So, who are the most affordable players? Those on their rookie contracts.  Whose salary takes the biggest single chunk of a teams cap? The quarterback.  So you have a lot of well-paid and longer tenured quarterbacks, playing with a lot of other players on their rookie contracts, or contract extensions.  If well-paid quarterback has a decent OL (Dallas), he's pretty damn lucky, because no team can keep a high functioning offensive line for long because of the salary cap.  Or, if the quarterback is teamed with a dynamic running game or super receivers, it won't last, as the team cannot afford said well-paid quarterback and others looking to get a bigger chunk of the cap.  So, coaches are coaching teams and against other teams that are constantly changing, trying to bottle lightning for a season, such as the Chiefs and the 49'er's, but most of these teams will be mediocre.  Fans will keep thinking that their mediocre teams are one or two players away from a championship, but where are those players most likely to come from?  The draft...rookie contracts...high priced free agency (except for quarterbacks) is pretty dead.  Rookies, especially linemen come with certain challenges.  Offensive linemen receive terrible coaching at the college level, and a lot of bad habits have to be worked out.  Running backs don't usually last more than 4 or 5 years.  Good receivers are plentiful, but not cheap.  Rookie receivers sometimes have a great deal of difficulty learning the nuances of the professional route tree.  I haven't even mentioned the defensive side of the ball!  With young players who don't last on anyone team more than 4 or 5 years, coaches and coordinators put in pretty conservative schemes.  Short passes and lots of option plays...thus the rise of the athletic quarterback versus the pocket passer.  The athletic quarterback helps an offense overcome bad line play.  Trouble is, there is only one Deshaun Watson, one Lamar Jackson and one Patrick Mahomes.  Thus the play in the NFL is effected by the salary cap for all but a very few teams.  The Vikings ain't one of them.

It's all about the coach/system and the QB that fits it to a T, isn't it?  

I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person to say that Bill Bellichick is the greatest coach in the history of the NFL, but he wasn't setting the world on fire before Tom Brady came along.  Now, it certainly helps your odds of making the playoffs to basically have zero competition within your division the way the Patriots have largely lived for two decades, but you still have to win in the playoffs and nobody has done that better than Bellichick and Brady.  I know Brady is the anomaly to end all anomalies, so let's get a little more current.  Andy Reid is also an excellent coach, and he's done well for a long time (only 3 losing seasons in 20 years and 29 playoff appearances during that time).  He of course went to a Super Bowl with the younger version of Donovan McDirtball, but it took Patrick Mahomes to make him a Super Bowl winner.

I think there are two ways to build a Super Bowl team. 

The first is to amass an excellent collection of talent team-wide, catch lightening in a bottle and go on a championship run.  Best somewhat recent examples of that are the 2000 and 2012 Ravens, 2002 Bucs, and the 2007 and 2011 Giants.  Super Bowl losers doing it the same way could include the 2005 Seahawks, 2018 Rams and the current 49ers.  Those teams did not have elite QBs for the most part but the teams were stacked.

The second way is to have a QB who takes the team on his back and can win seemingly no matter what and with whomever working with him.  The Chiefs seem that way now, the Patriots of course.  The Steelers, Saints, Packers and Wilson's Seahawks are that version.  Sometimes they lose the SB though.  Nobody's perfect.

The Vikings are built in the first manner.  It's conceivable that we could get on a run and at least make a Super Bowl.  We've been close a couple of times with non-superstar QBs.  The problem is like you mention, the money runs thin.  We've fallen into the gray area of paying a good/not great QB like he were a superstar.  The rest of the team is mostly talented.  That feels like it's all quickly coming to an end.  Maybe I'm wrong.

I think we need to keep trying to get the franchise QB.  I've said it before, you have to draft him to have him.  You can't hit a home run without swinging for the fences.  Insert additional cliches here.   I don't think we'll ever be bad enough to pick in the top 3 where most people feel the elite QBs are so what do we do?  I try to remember that most SB QBs may have been high first rounders, but Brady, Russell Wilson, Brees, Garoppollo, and even Rodgers were not.  It can be done.  

Boy, was that long winded.

[SemperFeist]

46 minutes ago, Hyperborean said:

He might have been with Alex Smith but not with Mahomes.  You'd be out of your mind to handcuff that kid right now, and Reed is certainly smart enough to let him have opportunities to shine.  

They literally said during the game that no one has gone for it less on 4th down than Andy Reid and the Chiefs. And that’s with Mahomes. 

[JDBrocks]

2 hours ago, swede700 said:

Those moves aren't necessarily unreasonable.  We'll have to see in real life whether Diggs is moved, rather than restructured.  I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they might choose to move him to save on the headache.  While he has $9M in dead money, they would save $5.5M by moving him and $15M over the next years after that, so it might be worth it to take the hit now.  

They would be stupid - and I don’t throw that word around lightly - to move their best offensive player. There are plenty of moves to be made elsewhere that don’t require trading the best offensive player and 2nd/3rd best player on the roster. Especially at his age and price.

[SemperFeist]

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by SemperFeist

[Hyperborean]

15 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

They literally said during the game that no one has gone for it less on 4th down than Andy Reid and the Chiefs. And that’s with Mahomes. 

I believe you/them.  It's hard to believe and I wonder how many times they've actually needed to go for it since they're always blowing everybody out though.

[PrplChilPill]

48 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

 

It works if there is a target you can get, and you are right.......Anyone LOVE a QB, and think they can be elite in less than two years, that is realistic to get?