ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, N4L said: lol I always hear the bolded and you are looking at it the wrong way. you would have some debt, but you would also have an asset. your equity position in the property will increase over time as the tenants pay your mortgage. Even if the property gains no value and you have zero cash flow, if you sell in 10 years you will have more money than you started with SFR can be liabilities, because they dont actually generate income, but you guys are acting like receiving rent every month that pays your mortgage, all expenses and then some is some big liability that will hang over your head. it wont. I specifically said to bake in the risk of non-payment by giving yourself a lot of breathing room on the cash flow. My aunt bought 3 houses in a bad, bad area in 09, 10, 11. She sold them all in 2019 and traded into a 7 unit apartment building in a good area. She now makes 5.5k per month after expenses (and taxes!) to sit on her butt and have someone else deal with potential issues. thats like 66k per year after taxes. Her initial investment in the three homes was something like 175k combined (she was leveraged, and locked in super low interest rates). Im just saying that ''the S&P being at an all time high after being propped up by the fed during a recession" is not really a good reason to be complacent. Diversity is important and you will never outlive your money if you own investment real estate just my .02 take it for what its worth I already have an asset: mutual funds, and my position there increases over time too. Any cash I would save for a down payment would be money that I'm not investing. Like your aunt, there are people who can buy houses, put **** tons of work into them, and beat the S&P. It's totally possible. For me, it's just not worth the effort and the stress of being leveraged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, N4L said: lol I always hear the bolded and you are looking at it the wrong way. you would have some debt, but you would also have an asset. your equity position in the property will increase over time as the tenants pay your mortgage. Even if the property gains no value and you have zero cash flow, if you sell in 10 years you will have more money than you started with SFR can be liabilities, because they dont actually generate income, but you guys are acting like receiving rent every month that pays your mortgage, all expenses and then some is some big liability that will hang over your head. it wont. I specifically said to bake in the risk of non-payment by giving yourself a lot of breathing room on the cash flow. My aunt bought 3 houses in a bad, bad area in 09, 10, 11. She sold them all in 2019 and traded into a 7 unit apartment building in a good area. She now makes 5.5k per month after expenses (and taxes!) to sit on her butt and have someone else deal with potential issues. thats like 66k per year after taxes. Her initial investment in the three homes was something like 175k combined (she was leveraged, and locked in super low interest rates). Im just saying that ''the S&P being at an all time high after being propped up by the fed during a recession" is not really a good reason to be complacent. Diversity is important and you will never outlive your money if you own investment real estate just my .02 take it for what its worth Yeah but this conversation started around not being able to find renters because of the current economic climate. The whole premise of leveraging debt to make money on rentals centers around the notion that you'll be able to keep a certain occupancy percentage. The tenants can't pay your mortgage if you can't find tenants. And if you can't pay the mortgage...well then that's bad. Regardless, if you're expecting a downturn of the market and thinking that makes it a good time to buy rentals on debt...i'm not really sure what to tell you. That's just multiplying risk. I think that's a pretty intuitive thing to grasp, so maybe you're saying something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Heimdallr said: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/07/15/warnings-possible-cover-progress-trump-orders-hospitals-stop-sending-coronavirus Don't believe any numbers you see from the feds moving forward. Hopefully hospitals and states post real numbers directly. The way around this latest obfuscation is to skip the CDC and set up a separate independent website called "DCD"Department to Combat Disinformation - and post the real numbers there. That way all the hospitals have an independent source with reliable data across all facilities. I'm guessing somebody will set this up soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, theJ said: Yeah but this conversation started around not being able to find renters because of the current economic climate. The whole premise of leveraging debt to make money on rentals centers around the notion that you'll be able to keep a certain occupancy percentage. The tenants can't pay your mortgage if you can't find tenants. And if you can't pay the mortgage...well then that's bad. Regardless, if you're expecting a downturn of the market and thinking that makes it a good time to buy rentals on debt...i'm not really sure what to tell you. That's just multiplying risk. I think that's a pretty intuitive thing to grasp, so maybe you're saying something else. To be fair, I've heard the same types of stories from people like @N4L;s aunt. I dated a girl who's dad was a carpenter after getting out of the marines, and this was his strategy. Bought early, leveraged himself, and paid them off so he could have a mailbox job in retirement. But he didn't mind using a push mower on 4 lawns every weekend, taking 10 PM Friday night calls to fix a running drain, etc. The return can be better, but the reason it can be better comes down to sweat equity IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 more info on T-cell responses here: Most of the focus has been on B-cells which make the antibodies/vaccines work. But T-cells also play a role and we're learning more each day https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus Very interesting indeed! That would argue that there has been past zoonotic coronavirus transmission in humans, unknown viruses that apparently did not lead to serious disease, which have provided some people with a level of T-cell based protection to the current pandemic. This could potentially help to resolve another gap in our knowledge, as mentioned in that recent post: when antibody surveys come back saying that (say) 95% of a given population does not appear to have been exposed to the current virus, does that mean that all 95% of them are vulnerable – or not? I’ll reiterate the point of that post here: antibody profiling (while very important) is not the whole story, and we need to know what we’re missing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 more on the vaccine from Pfizer, including an interview with CEO https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/14/pfizers-progress “. . .it was the moment when I saw the data, plus many other data that we haven’t published yet, [that] made me say that until now I was thinking IF we have a vaccine. Now I’m discussing when we’re going to have a vaccine. . .We have a lot of indications that make me feel that really it should make it.” 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: more info on T-cell responses here: Most of the focus has been on B-cells which make the antibodies/vaccines work. But T-cells also play a role and we're learning more each day https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus Very interesting indeed! That would argue that there has been past zoonotic coronavirus transmission in humans, unknown viruses that apparently did not lead to serious disease, which have provided some people with a level of T-cell based protection to the current pandemic. This could potentially help to resolve another gap in our knowledge, as mentioned in that recent post: when antibody surveys come back saying that (say) 95% of a given population does not appear to have been exposed to the current virus, does that mean that all 95% of them are vulnerable – or not? I’ll reiterate the point of that post here: antibody profiling (while very important) is not the whole story, and we need to know what we’re missing. Could this insinuate long-term immunity? I mean- if T-cells are providing protection still from encounters of SARS, then perhaps battling COVID would allow similar protection? I also wonder if viral load plays a factor. I wasn't able to read the whole study, so if they dug into this- my bad! I'm at work right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 A friend of mine at Astrazeneca told me a couple of weeks ago that he thinks they'll have the vaccine ready before the end of the year. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 New Mexico had it all under control. Then people decided they wanted to see where Breaking Bad was filmed. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN24G16P Quote A 45-minute drive south in Taos Plaza, Louisiana tourist Christy Brasiel was frustrated the historic Native American community was closed to visitors and compared Lujan Grisham's rules to "communism or socialism." "They're taking away our liberty," said Brasiel, 49, staying in an Airbnb rental to avoid her voluntary quarantine order enforced by local hotels that turn away out-of-state visitors. Quote "We don't want you here now," she told potential visitors in a July 9 press briefing, taking special aim at Texans. "I want you to stay in Texas." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: To be fair, I've heard the same types of stories from people like @N4L;s aunt. I dated a girl who's dad was a carpenter after getting out of the marines, and this was his strategy. Bought early, leveraged himself, and paid them off so he could have a mailbox job in retirement. But he didn't mind using a push mower on 4 lawns every weekend, taking 10 PM Friday night calls to fix a running drain, etc. The return can be better, but the reason it can be better comes down to sweat equity IMO. No doubt you can make serious bank leveraging. The math proves out that your rate of return is better when leverage as compared to buying outright (or just investing in the stock market). But that rate of return doesn't come free. It requires sweat equity, as you mentioned, as well as a greater tolerance for risk. The last part is what turns me off. Especially in the current environment when the risk is greater. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about so this is my last post on the subject (even though i love talking about this kind of stuff). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, theJ said: No doubt you can make serious bank leveraging. The math proves out that your rate of return is better when leverage as compared to buying outright (or just investing in the stock market). But that rate of return doesn't come free. It requires sweat equity, as you mentioned, as well as a greater tolerance for risk. The last part is what turns me off. Especially in the current environment when the risk is greater. Anyway, that's not what this thread is about so this is my last post on the subject (even though i love talking about this kind of stuff). To the equally off topic stock investing thread? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Shanedorf said: The way around this latest obfuscation is to skip the CDC and set up a separate independent website called "DCD"Department to Combat Disinformation - and post the real numbers there. That way all the hospitals have an independent source with reliable data across all facilities. I'm guessing somebody will set this up soon. How do you avoid retaliation from the federal government if you do that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clevenowin Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Shanedorf said: The way around this latest obfuscation is to skip the CDC and set up a separate independent website called "DCD"Department to Combat Disinformation - and post the real numbers there. That way all the hospitals have an independent source with reliable data across all facilities. I'm guessing somebody will set this up soon. Another step towards The Division becoming reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwAg Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, MookieMonstah said: Awesome. Country is going to vilify teachers for being scared during a pandemic. This whole thing is insane. Edit - Removed tweet. Look up JasonSCambell if you want to watch it. It’s an interview on FOX and it’s legit insane lol Alright, I didn’t watch the segment when you said this because I figured it was the normal crazy ****, but I just saw it, and that was actually the craziest **** I’ve ever seen. Edited July 15, 2020 by SwAg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 IDR this posted here yet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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