2018 College Prospect Thread

[champ11]

IDK How I missed this gold lmfao. Football culture is a sickness

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell 

[Broncofan]

53 minutes ago, champ11 said:

IDK How I missed this gold lmfao. Football culture is a sickness

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell 

Are you referring to the fact that Wilson is pidgeonholed as a "sandlot" QB?    That's a legit gripe - Wilson is a terrific QB when given time - he just has to resort to sandlot creativity because his OL is horrible.   Necessity forces those plays, not Wilson's preference.

[champ11]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Are you referring to the fact that Wilson is pidgeonholed as a "sandlot" QB?    That's a legit gripe - Wilson is a terrific QB when given time - he just has to resort to sandlot creativity because his OL is horrible.   Necessity forces those plays, not Wilson's preference.

Yeah, I mean I don't really know where to start with the article. It's absolute garbage top to bottom. I think the most damning thing, that I've been getting at (and will keep posting examples of, lol), is illustrated pretty well here:

 

Quote

 

To answer Peter’s question: I’m putting Stafford over Wilson—and it’s a no-brainer. (My Matthew Stafford man crush is hard to shake.) But I get what Peter is saying. Another way to view the question, and the way offensive coaches ponder this sort of thing, is: If you’re building an offense, which QB do you want?

For me, it’s Stafford. No question. But here’s the tricky part: If I’m running a defense and I get to choose between facing Stafford or facing Wilson, I’d choose to face Stafford. And so he’s the guy I want to play with, but also against. Or, more apt for this conversation, Wilson is the guy I don’t want to play with or against

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I can assure you most NFL coaches feel the same way. I had this conversation about Colin Kaepernick vs. Peyton Manning with several coaches following the 2013 season, when Kaepernick took San Francisco to the NFC championship and Manning took Denver to the Super Bowl. (Both lost to Russell Wilson, by the way.) The coaches liked Manning but also preferred to play against him instead of Kaepernick. It’s because football schemers value predictability.

The game of football has 22 pieces moving within a confined area. One of those pieces controls the ball for much of the time and is therefore markedly more important than all the others. Coaches, tasked with organizing and leveraging all this, want to know where that guy is going to be. Everything a coach does revolves around him.

 

Taking Stafford over Wilson in any capacity is a freaking joke that I don't feel like I need to dive into. But it gets back to the whole stereotype thing. Stafford fits the mold of what traditional football people want. Or think they want. Looks the part. Has the arm. Can "read a defense" (lol) 

 

Pretty much his point, though, is damning on the coaches. He thinks it's smart because he obviously talks to these guys and people within the NFL......but they don't know how to be progressive. Coaching Wilson is (apparently) harder for them bc it isn't "traditional" football. He doesn't fit the mold, even though he is an incredible talent, and it makes their job a little tougher. 

This whole piece had me weak. These guys would rather coach a Brock Osweiler over a Russel Wilson because it makes their job easier and it's doing what they've done before. You can't make this stuff up!! We gotta tear down the system baby!!! 

 

[AKRNA]

Just a thought. Say we end up picking 6th.

A trade down to the 10th spot is worth about 300 points. Add those same points to our 38th pick and we move up to around 20. Now obviously we need to find willing trade partners but, I think I'd rather have 10 and 20 than 6 and 38.

Those spots should net you Mayfield and one of the top OT's in the draft. 

One other thing. One of you posted a set of combine metrics for successful LT's last year. I think last year only Bolles reached and passed them. Using just the eye test I think there may be 3 or more that do this year. Given the speed on defenses, I'd love to have a pair of OT's that can both play the left side.  The days of a huge plodder being successful on the right side are over.

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah, I mean I don't really know where to start with the article. It's absolute garbage top to bottom. I think the most damning thing, that I've been getting at (and will keep posting examples of, lol), is illustrated pretty well here:

 

 

Taking Stafford over Wilson in any capacity is a freaking joke that I don't feel like I need to dive into. But it gets back to the whole stereotype thing. Stafford fits the mold of what traditional football people want. Or think they want. Looks the part. Has the arm. Can "read a defense" (lol) 

 

Pretty much his point, though, is damning on the coaches. He thinks it's smart because he obviously talks to these guys and people within the NFL......but they don't know how to be progressive. Coaching Wilson is (apparently) harder for them bc it isn't "traditional" football. He doesn't fit the mold, even though he is an incredible talent, and it makes their job a little tougher. 

This whole piece had me weak. These guys would rather coach a Brock Osweiler over a Russel Wilson because it makes their job easier and it's doing what they've done before. You can't make this stuff up!! We gotta tear down the system baby!!! 

 

Well yes anyone who says Stafford is more valuable than Wilson isn’t paying attention at all.  

Stafford is above average but he gets credit for all those 4Q comebacks last year in which half were on the other team letting them back in than him forcing a major heroic charge.  And prior to that his success was mostly predicated on volume not elite play.    Wilson is a true perennial 4W QB imo.  

[champ11]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Well yes anyone who says Stafford is more valuable than Wilson isn’t paying attention at all.  

well it really gets back to the pocket passer vs non-pocket passer stereotype stuff, IMO. but yeah, for sure. 

[Broncofan]

17 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Just a thought. Say we end up picking 6th.

A trade down to the 10th spot is worth about 300 points. Add those same points to our 38th pick and we move up to around 20. Now obviously we need to find willing trade partners but, I think I'd rather have 10 and 20 than 6 and 38.

Those spots should net you Mayfield and one of the top OT's in the draft. 

One other thing. One of you posted a set of combine metrics for successful LT's last year. I think last year only Bolles reached and passed them. Using just the eye test I think there may be 3 or more that do this year. Given the speed on defenses, I'd love to have a pair of OT's that can both play the left side.  The days of a huge plodder being successful on the right side are over.

That’s very original and creative and makes a lot of sense. But I have little faith that Elway would think that creatively.   I agree in this draft class the diff between 6 and 10 is negligible talent wise so picking 10 and 20 way better.   Elway’s habit of locking on to guys no matter where the board puts them makes a move down from 6 to 10 less likely IMO.  

I think Elway is more likely to try to move up from 1.5/1.6 to 1.1 / 1.2 than he is to move down looking at his draft MO since abandoning overall BPA philosophy.  

[thebestever6]

Its a pipe dream that we even pick 5 or 6 now if we beat the Colts tonight we'd have to lose out to obtain that.

[Broncofan]

42 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Its a pipe dream that we even pick 5 or 6 now if we beat the Colts tonight we'd have to lose out to obtain that.

If we lose out and the 49ers win 1x (and they are favorites vs.  TEN this week) then we’d be tied with IND & others for 1.3. The thing is that the SoS for us and Indy are very close while the others are well ahead.  CLE is set at 1.1 with 1 more L and NYG is a lock for 1.2.   We lose out we lock in a top 5 pick and even 1.3 is still in play. 

But yes if we win 1x then even 1.6 depends on the field.  Really losing out is the only way to guarantee  a top 4-5 pick and picks 6-10 will really depend on the pack.  

[AKRNA]

38 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Its a pipe dream that we even pick 5 or 6 now if we beat the Colts tonight we'd have to lose out to obtain that.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Our last three opponents have better records than ours, two of those games are on the road where we're 0-6, with the only home game against the Chiefs. 0-3 is not at all unlikely.

[thebestever6]

3 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. Our last three opponents have better records than ours, two of those games are on the road where we're 0-6, with the only home game against the Chiefs. 0-3 is not at all unlikely.

If we beat,the Colts tonight I think we go 2 and 1 down the stretch all about momentum.

[Scoundrel]

Alright so let's just Draft Nelson and Start Brock next year 

[thebestever6]

33 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Alright so let's just Draft Nelson and Start Brock next year 

 If Elway did that I would go bananas. 

[jsthomp2007]

On 12/10/2017 at 3:25 PM, AKRNA said:

I've got a question for you guys that really watch the college QB's. Out of the top QB's, which one is most likely to head butt one of his OL guys after a good play?

A McMahon type, QB with a LB mentality. Tough guy, fierce competitor. If you've got the time to rate 'em 1-10 or whatever I'd appreciate it.

Wouldn't this guy already be on the team?  That would be Chad Kelly wouldn't it?  Isn't Chad Kelly just a bigger Baker Mayfield? 

[BroncosFan2010]

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Alright so let's just Draft Nelson and Start Brock next year 

As I see it right now, its a competition for who is the long term backup in Siemien and Brock. They are both excellent locker room guys, and both should come cheap for the long term. Obviously Osweiler has the better arm, but Trevor has another year (Or is it two?) on a rookie scale and is cheaper. I tend to think we could get a high R6 or even low R5 for Trevor to a team that wants a cheap, young but seasoned QB and lacks a reliable backup. Atlanta seems like a reasonable destination, something like Siemien and our 2019 R6 for their 2019 R5. Then just sign Brock each year to a 1M type deal.

No idea what to do with Lynch. He isn't nearly good enough to even be relied upon as a backup IMO and when it comes to 3rd string QB, I will take the Chad Kelly over him all day. I think Kelly has most of Lynch's positive traits (Mobile, excellent arm, um, that's about it) while giving us a lot that Lynch doesn't have, most notable a really strong competitive spirit. As I have parroted numerous times, Lynch is too 'awww shucks' to make it in this league.

Quote

Wouldn't this guy already be on the team?  That would be Chad Kelly wouldn't it?  Isn't Chad Kelly just a bigger Baker Mayfield? 

Chad had some pretty up and down accuracy at Ole Miss, and nowhere near the pedigree winning games. Also would argue that Baker is better polished, but the pure talent gap isn't that wide IMO. Chad had top 50 pick type physical traits, he just needed to grow up and play calmer on the field (He would hurry his throws, panic a bit, etc.). If Chad has taken this last year to become a professional mentally, he has a real chance to start after another season off the bench and on the sideline.

Right now we are looking at a pick between 6-10. Given that, these are the guys I like, in order: Quenton Nelson OG, Connor Williams OT, Roquan Smith ILB.

Not a fan of McGlinchy that high, he is just so 'meh' all around. Don't get me wrong, he is going to be a starter for a long time in this league, but someone that wont dominate in any aspect of the game. Just a steady guy. That's not a top 10 pick to me. And Orlando Brown is just way too overrated. With his size he should be pancaking people left and right but he plays quite soft and doesn't go for the kill. I don't even see a R1 pick in him. I think Tyrell Crosby from Oregon is better. Brown just gets hype from his bloodlines and because of his frame. I think he can start, but again don't see anywhere near a top 10 talent.