ET80 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: I knew somebody was going to make this argument. That 2002 Tampa Bay team was stacked with super stars that Gruden inherited from Tony Dungy. And he won the Super Bowl from the team he used to coach just one season prior! That Super Bowl had very little to do with Gruden. It was more about those players than it was him. I don't think you understand what you're arguing. Everything you said is true. It's still more than everything Bill O'Brien has done in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, RamblinMan99 said: Yeah, but I'd rather have Khalil Mack than to have the players that Oakland drafted. Again - don't think you understand what you're arguing. Gruden traded an All Pro talent in need of a new contract, and received multiple first round picks. BoB traded an All Pro talent in need of a new contract and received zero first round picks (twice if you include the Jadevion Clowney trade last season). What he did with the picks really doesn't matter - he received them. A simple scenario for you to follow: You go and mow the lawn for your neighbor. You get $20 for mowing the lawn. You immediately turn around and buy some magic beans that are nothing more than standard Lima beans. Does that mean you did not receive $20? No, it just means you wasted the $20. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ET80 said: I don't think you understand what you're arguing. Everything you said is true. It's still more than everything Bill O'Brien has done in the league. No, YOU don't understand the argument. My original statement is that BoB and Gruden are one and the same. To say that Gruden has done more than BoB has done is to basically include his MNF broadcasting career, which honestly doesn't count. Other than that, they're very, very similar and tend to make the same kinds of mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, RamblinMan99 said: No, YOU don't understand the argument. My original statement is that BoB and Gruden are one and the same. But... they're not. At all. Gruden has a ring - regardless of how it was earned, he was the HC of a team that won a Super Bowl. Bill O'Brien has not done this. At any level. At any position, either - HC, OC with Belicheck, HC of the Nittany Lions - he's never really won anything. It's not rocket science - either you win or you didn't win, regardless of the scenarios surrounding it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamblinMan99 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, ET80 said: But... they're not. At all. Gruden has a ring - regardless of how it was earned, he was the HC of a team that won a Super Bowl. Yeah, but it's not like BoB hasn't made the playoffs either. He's also had only one losing season out of the 6 seasons he's been at Houston. If anything, you could actually make a pretty valid argument that he's had more success than Gruden has had. Gruden had a lot of losing seasons with Tampa Bay and was also quite abysmal during his first stunt with Oakland and especially now. 22 minutes ago, ET80 said: Bill O'Brien has not done this. At any level. At any position, either - HC, OC with Belicheck, HC of the Nittany Lions - he's never really won anything. It's not rocket science - either you win or you didn't win, regardless of the scenarios surrounding it. You really can't use his Super Bowl-less experience with New England to make your case. You can't at all. New England lost those Super Bowls by the narrowest of margins, so for BoB to be part of an organization that made it so close is just complete hogwash. It's no different than saying that Jim Kelly wasn't great because he didn't win any of the 4 Super Bowls he made it to. That's YOUR argument in a nutshell. 13 minutes ago, ET80 said: Gruden has a ring - regardless of how it was earned, he was the HC of a team that won a Super Bowl. See, what you're saying here can be said about BoB too. BoB made the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons with Houston, clinched his division every year he made the playoffs--regardless of how it was earned. And, we're talking about a guy who has only had 6 years of experience as a head coach in the NFL, while Gruden has had 13 years. I'm not saying that BoB is a great coach. All I'm saying is that the evidence is out there to validate that Jon Gruden really wasn't that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, RamblinMan99 said: BoB made the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons with Houston, clinched his division every year he made the playoffs--regardless of how it was earned. And, we're talking about a guy who has only had 6 years of experience as a head coach in the NFL, while Gruden has had 13 years. I'm not saying that BoB is a great coach. All I'm saying is that the evidence is out there to validate that Jon Gruden really wasn't that much better. BoB has systematically dismantled one of the best rosters in the NFL and has received a pittance for ludicrously talented players. Gruden was at least smart enough to hire a competent GM. For Mack and Cooper we received 3 1sts and a 3rd in exchange for a 2nd. For Clowney and Hopkins the texans received a 2nd and a 3rd. The prior year they traded for Tunsil and Stills for 2 1sts and a 2nd. Please don't compare Mike Mayock to BoB unless you want to actually expose yourself as a troll. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 4 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: Did you watch him at all last season? 2019 was the best year of his career so far. If Oakland were to get a better QB, they would have already had a guaranteed target locked in place. They thought they could get an upgrade with Antonio Brown, but they apparently didn't realize just how much his attitude mattered. Why? Because Oakland is a very dysfunctional football organization that just blindly looks for the best talent around the league. They don't know how to draft, they don't know how to coach. They were the free agency team of the NFL for years, signing players just to see them leave in a year or two to get more money. Yes, keeping Cooper and paying him (maybe not that much of a sum) should have been a priority for them. LOL yes because the organization 5 years ago with different management is a direct reflection of the organization rn. Sure thing. Paying Cooper 20 million when he disappears in big games? Pass. Carr had a substantially better passer rating without Cooper. These arguments are all over the place. Texans fans don't even agree with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Please don't compare Mike Mayock to BoB unless you want to actually expose yourself as a troll. You're clearly just jealous you cant be a Ramblin' Man. Edited April 18, 2020 by FourThreeMafia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: That's YOUR argument in a nutshell I'm not denying that. That IS my argument. And it's valid. Jon Gruden won a SB. Bill O'Brien didn't. 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: Yeah, but it's not like BoB hasn't made the playoffs either. Since when has making the playoffs been anywhere near winning a Super Bowl? Who really gives a damn about making the playoffs? Mike Malarkey, Doug Marrone, Chuck Pagano made the playoffs before, that doesn't mean a single thing, especially when you're trying to argue against someone winning a Super Bowl. 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: He's also had only one losing season out of the 6 seasons he's been at Houston. So, you're not very familiar with th AFC South. From 2014 to 2018, the AFCS had at least two teams picking in the top five - there's usually a division winner, a .500 team, and two teams with claims of being the worst team in the NFL that season. It's easier to claim a winning season when you're spotted 4-6 games every year. 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: You really can't use his Super Bowl-less experience with New England to make your case. You can't at all. You're right, given the track record of other Belicheck disciples (Patricia, Weis, Crennell, McDaniel) you can very easily say that the "success" they had in New England was a product of Brady/Belicheck and not their own skillset. So, thank you for proving my point for me with this blurb. 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: See, what you're saying here can be said about BoB too. No, it can't be said because... BILL O'BRIEN DOESN'T HAVE A RING. 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: BoB made the playoffs 4 of 6 seasons with Houston, clinched his division every year he made the playoffs--regardless of how it was earned. I've already covered this - easy to win divisions when you're coaching against guys like Pagano, Mularkey and Marrone. Here's some literature to review when propping up your statements: https://sportsradio610.radio.com/articles/17-facts-for-each-minute-of-texans-teleconference 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: All I'm saying is that the evidence is out there to validate that Jon Gruden really wasn't that much better. Yes. There is evidence that validates it. It's called a Super Bowl victory. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: For Clowney and Hopkins the texans received a 2nd and a 3rd. Oh, don't forget David Johnson and his 387 yards... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 minute ago, ET80 said: Oh, don't forget David Johnson and his 387 yards... But you get to pay him a lot of money 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 After reading the last few pages, my only contribution that can match some of the comments being made is this: LT is overrated because he might get injured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Forge said: LT is overrated because he might get injured We might have a new leader in the clubhouse, jeez... My favorite: 3 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said: 4 hours ago, ET80 said: Gruden has a ring - regardless of how it was earned, he was the HC of a team that won a Super Bowl. See, what you're saying here can be said about BoB too. No, you literally cannot say the same about Bill O'Brien. He doesn't have a ring - you cannot say "O'Brien has a ring" like you can say Gruden has a ring. You cannot say "O'Brien was the HC of a team that won a Super Bowl" because he's yet to even MAKE an AFCCG. This is arguably the most simple concept surrounding possession. I mean, I have as many SB rings as O'Brien... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Forge said: But you get to pay him a lot of money They’re also paying him for who he used to be, not who he is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted April 18, 2020 Share Posted April 18, 2020 (edited) Tampa game last year: 3 kneel downs from Watson ends the game. It’s 3rd grade math. B O B calls a handoff run that results in a declined holding and now Tampa gets the ball back. This is one example of 10+ instances that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the B O B is a deficient NFL mind. The guy coached 2 of the worst playoff games in NFL history in the 2 games against KC. One of his wins could have been accomplished without a head coach because Connor Cook was the opposing QB. His entire playoff resume is one ultra close home game win against the Bills last year. He has full control of the franchise for some reason. His Clowney trade where Houston paid most of the salary was Foles and a 2nd for Sammy Sleeves and 8 million extra cap hit level stupid. All he had to do was tell Clowney they would not franchise him and they would have added JD to that roster last season. They would have gotten a similar pick in compensation when he left (assuming he ever signs a deal) His Hopkins trade was even worse. The Tunsil trade was also a monumental fail because he surrendered all leverage by not extending Tunsil. They either set the salary bar for Tunsil or trade a Clowney tag war for a Tunsil tag war. Any defense of B O B on any level shows a complete lack of understanding. Edited April 18, 2020 by SkippyX 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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