Cam Newton

[indifference]

21 hours ago, Crickett said:

Yeah.... yeah they would.  The Panthers offense is reliant on a deep threat to make big plays down the field and bail them out of rough situations.  They don't have that.  You're trying to argue if they had a deep threat to take the top off of defenses and make big plays down the field (you know, the thing the Panther offense has been reliant on for years), it wouldn't make the Panthers quarterback any better.  Of course it would.  That lack of down field presence is one of many reasons the Panthers offense isn't working and likely isn't going to in the near future.

I wasn't confused by the Curtis Samuel pick, I wrote in my earlier post why I thought they did it, but it's not working as I think it was intended.  Just because someone is really fast doesn't mean they can stretch the field.  C.J. Spiller was really fast, I didn't see him watching very many 50 yard passes in Buffalo.  Tavon Austin is really fast, and that's a useful tool for getting around the corner on the jet sweep, but I don't see him making many big plays down the field either. 

No. I'm trying argue that a rookie WR that is a deep threat won't help Cam much right now. Rookie receivers are hit or miss when they come into the league, especially, if they are not blue chip prospects. You usually can get production out of rookie possession type WR's though early on.

Curtis Samuel mostly played RB and lined up at the slot for the Buckeye at times. He never really was a true receiver but I guess they think he can eventually get there one day. We'll see, its still early the talent is there. Maybe he develops into a sound #3 for them. He will need to improve upon his route running though before that ever happens.

Edited September 26, 2017 by indifference

[Cypher]

9 hours ago, iknowcool said:

This play represents the Panthers offense. Only 3 receivers out on a route, all downfield with no underneath options. All are being blanketed, meanwhile Cam is still somehow being pressured.  But yeah, he is supposed to overcome that.

Cam is a 7 year vet, but he's not an elite QB. Expecting guys to overcome everything as if they are Brady or Rodgers (and Rodgers, as we saw during his down period, couldn't even do that) is ridiculous. He needs help. If you think the solution is getting rid of him, then you aren't watching the games and/or underestimating the value of a QB.  The scheme is horrendous. 

Same thing with Stafford. His performance is night and day from 2012-2014 and I feel certain coaching had something to do with it. 

 

This is incredibly selective. Yes, this play is terrible. We have left 4-5 TDs on the field so far through three games not because of pressure, but because Cam never saw them, or launched the ball fifteen feet over their heads. All three of his INTs against the Saints came on plays where he wasn't pressured. Not to mention, at minimum he was responsible for one of the sacks last week, probably two. He ran into pressure twice.

[El Ramster]

40 minutes ago, Cypher said:

This is incredibly selective. Yes, this play is terrible. We have left 4-5 TDs on the field so far through three games not because of pressure, but because Cam never saw them, or launched the ball fifteen feet over their heads. All three of his INTs against the Saints came on plays where he wasn't pressured. Not to mention, at minimum he was responsible for one of the sacks last week, probably two. He ran into pressure twice.

True that... 

[Hunter2_1]

Carolina have upped their % of 3-step drops on passing plays. Which means they are trying to incorporate more short/quick throws. Cam's accuracy on these throws is a league bad 55. The average is around 80. His accuracy on short throws, so far this season, has been abysmal. So, they're just trying to get him to play against his strengths. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Hunter2_1

[Carmen Cygni]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:43 AM, iknowcool said:

This play represents the Panthers offense. Only 3 receivers out on a route, all downfield with no underneath options. All are being blanketed, meanwhile Cam is still somehow being pressured.  But yeah, he is supposed to overcome that.

Cam is a 7 year vet, but he's not an elite QB. Expecting guys to overcome everything as if they are Brady or Rodgers (and Rodgers, as we saw during his down period, couldn't even do that) is ridiculous. He needs help. If you think the solution is getting rid of him, then you aren't watching the games and/or underestimating the value of a QB.  The scheme is horrendous. 

Same thing with Stafford. His performance is night and day from 2012-2014 and I feel certain coaching had something to do with it. 

 

That is awful overall offensive awareness. How does a possible 7 man protection scheme blow a 6 man pressure? LT Kalil must pickup the strongside blitz, regardless of Dickson being lined up behind him. But there should be a call there for Dickson to chip and release for a check down outlet as Dickson also misread the defense and crossed the formation for no reason. Also there should be a hot read for WR Shepard to run a slant for the quick hit also. You either dump off to Dickson or throw at the weakside blitz to Shepard depending on how the SS plays the routes. That's just a straight up pitiful play design. That shouldn't happen in HS let alone the NFL. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Carmen Cygni

[incognito_man]

Ranked as the 2nd best QB coming into 2017: http://presnapreads.com/2017/08/29/nfl-quarterback-tiers-evaluations-ahead-of-the-2017-season/

 

Quote

 

Write-up:

Cam Newton’s MVP season wasn’t a fluke. He carried that form into the beginning of the 2016 season and through the midpoint of the regular season. Then, with the suddenness of a blown tire, Newton’s arm died. He could no longer physically put the ball where he wanted to put it. A quarterback who could previously flick the ball 60 yards with ease was now watching his passes float no matter how much effort he put into the throw. The worst game of his career occurred in Week 17 against the Buccaneers, Newton threw seven of his 27 interceptable passes for the season in that game. Each a result of his dysfunctional shoulder sapping his arm strength. It was obvious that Newton’s shoulder was badly injured long before the offseason surgery.

Because of how Newton failed, it doesn’t make sense to criticize him heavily for those performances. He wasn’t making bad coverage reads or reacting poorly to pressure in the pocket. All of his problems could be traced back to that shoulder injury. Understanding that context, Newton has been astonishingly good the past two seasons.

Not only does the 28-year old play in the most stressful scheme a quarterback can play in, he does so with a consistently inadequate supporting cast. Everything the Panthers do centers around Newton’s skill set. The passing game relies on deep drops in the pocket with vertical routes that take time to develop. Because the Panthers don’t have viable starting tackles to give Newton time, the offense relies on hard play fakes and extra pass blockers to function. This means Newton has to fit the ball into tighter windows with fewer receivers running routes against more defensive backs. He often has to throw said receivers open and anticipate the placement of the ball to get it out before the pass rush engulfs him. Even when Newton makes a perfect pass, his receivers are as likely to ruin it as they are to catch it. Newton lost 845 yards (without considering YAC) to receiver error last year, only Aaron Rodgers lost more and he played in four more games. Kelvin Benjamin’s return actually made the receiving corps worse rather than better.

There isn’t another quarterback in the league who could execute the offense that the Panthers are forced to run by their limited personnel. He combines the patience, awareness, arm strength and poise within the pocket to keep the timing of route combinations as everything collapses around him. There are other quarterbacks who contribute in the running game like Newton, but none have the whole scheme built around him the way he does. Newton makes every single element of the offense better with his presence alone. He can be used on option run designs like Alex Smith, Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick and Andy Dalton, but Newton’s skill set goes one step further than that. He is also the best redzone weapon in the league because of his power to run through linebackers. Newton’s presence changes the numbers advantage into the offense’s favor whenever they run the ball.

Much is made of Newton’s completion percentage. Using that singular number to judge accuracy is irrational. It would be like saying DeAndre Jordan is more accurate than Steph Curry because his field goal percentage is higher. Newton throws the ball downfield more than any other quarterback. 67.67 percent of Newton’s pass attempts travelled further than five yards downfield last year, the league average was 52.13 percent. Only Jameis Winston was close to Newton. When you adjust for that depth Newton’s completion percentage jumps to the 12th best in the league. When you take out the receiver’s influence on the outcome of each play to isolate the accuracy of the quarterback, Newton becomes by far the most accurate passer in the NFL. Those measurements aren’t perfect, but they are a far more accurate reflection of Newton’s accuracy than completion percentage is.

Did you know?

Cam Newton threw more passes further than 20 yards downfield last year than he threw behind the line of scrimmage. Newton was accurate on 68.46 percent of his passes that travelled further than five yards downfield. Even if you include all of Matt Barkley, Brock Osweiler, Jameis Winston, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Jared Goff’s short throws and exclude Newton’s, that 68.46 would still make him the most accurate from the group.

 

 

[Shady Slim]

looking at that list i didn't know it was humanely possible to be that stupid

tom brady at 3, marcus mariota at 7 ahead of both big ben and phillip rivers plus matty ice, sam bradford at 11, dak prescott at 12, derek carr at 16, colin kaepernick at 18 ahead of both cousins and the unretiring cutler...

[Jlowe22]

10 minutes ago, Shady Slim said:

looking at that list i didn't know it was humanely possible to be that stupid

tom brady at 3, marcus mariota at 7 ahead of both big ben and phillip rivers plus matty ice, sam bradford at 11, dak prescott at 12, derek carr at 16, colin kaepernick at 18 ahead of both cousins and the unretiring cutler...

That list doesn't make any sense to me either.

[Shady Slim]

brees in at six is also awful and his writeup opens with that he'll likely "be overlooked in the annals of great QB play"

like come on the man owns over half of the 5000 yard seasons in the history of football

[Jlowe22]

Just now, Shady Slim said:

brees in at six is also awful and his writeup opens with that he'll likely "be overlooked in the annals of great QB play"

like come on the man owns over half of the 5000 yard seasons in the history of football

A lot of the write-ups are just flat out wrong.  I'm not sure what games he's watching.

[Carmen Cygni]

22 minutes ago, Shady Slim said:

looking at that list i didn't know it was humanely possible to be that stupid

tom brady at 3, marcus mariota at 7 ahead of both big ben and phillip rivers plus matty ice, sam bradford at 11, dak prescott at 12, derek carr at 16, colin kaepernick at 18 ahead of both cousins and the unretiring cutler...

 

10 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

That list doesn't make any sense to me either.

 

Cian Fahey relies almost purely on statistical measures and doesn't understand schemes, concepts, nor reads or progressions. His tape analysis is very poor and guesses too often. It's very apparent in his work. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Carmen Cygni

[Jlowe22]

I agree with him that comp% alone doesn't tell the whole accuracy story, but this statement:

"When you take out the receiver’s influence on the outcome of each play to isolate the accuracy of the quarterback, Newton becomes by far the most accurate passer in the NFL. "

Is downright hilarious.

[Carmen Cygni]

For the record, I think Newton is a damn fine QB, he just needs (like any player) competent coaching and a scheme to utilize his strengths.

Case & point: The fine job Reid is doing with Alex Smith in Kansas City's spread offense. 

But on a personal accountability factor, Newton also needs to adhere to proper throwing mechanics instead of forcing plays to happen. Though, some of that stems from the original problem of the Panther's offensive scheme and coaching. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Carmen Cygni

[Mox]

I think most would agree he's super average and had one outstanding year. I don't think he's going to be a guy who is successful into his mid 30's.

[Hunter2_1]

7 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Ranked as the 2nd best QB coming into 2017: http://presnapreads.com/2017/08/29/nfl-quarterback-tiers-evaluations-ahead-of-the-2017-season/

 

 

That's just some guy's blog. You can't say he was "ranked as the 2nd best QB"