The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[drfrey13]

Just now, ronjon1990 said:

This was sorely missed last season. We practically gave winnable games away like a 3rd round pick with those patsy, impotent calls. 

My favorite aspect of Gannon's game was his confidence in running the system so that he would get into it with Gruden and tell him he was wrong.  Carr needs to have a good working relationship with Gruden but that includes having an honest relationship.  Sometimes you have to speak up when you disagree.  This does not seem to be in Carrs nature.  He will call out a player for messing up but crap does not flow uphill in his world.  Maybe has something to do with his faith combined with his personality.  Me personally I am the type to pull you aside and tell you my opinion away from everyone else the first time.  Do not want to undercut your authority but I will give you a look when the situation arises and if you choose to repeat the same mistake I will not care who is around.  I always give my boss the benefit of the doubt but once you prove you are incapable of make sound judgment calls I have no respect for your decision making.

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Chiefs are a divisional opponent, you tend to play divisional opponents close regardless of skill level. We were also due for some close Kansas City games. As for Tampa Bay, not sure what you’re talking about… they absolutely obliterated us. 
 

Also Denvers roster wasn’t that great when they signed Manning, they literally went all out in FA the following year. Although I agree it was a better roster than ours. 
 

Same with Tampa. If Winston had stayed on that team, no one predicts them in the playoffs, and no one thinks their roster is “good”. They wouldn’t of been anywhere close to the playoffs with Winston. I don’t think they would of made the playoffs with Carr either. Elite QB’s DO matter. They matter A LOT. They instantly make your team 5x better. That’s how important they are. Carr will never be close to an Elite QB, something I’m sure we all agree with. 
 

While I did pick the Bucs to win the Super Bowl with Brady his first year on the team (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season, never wavering) due to the Elite QB factor, I do agree Rodgers wouldn’t lead us to a Super Bowl this year, I would predict 12-5 with a Conf Champ Loss if we obtained Rodgers this season (while Carr/Raiders likely would be around 9-8 this season). However, in 2022, I do think Rodgers and the Raiders would win the Super Bowl. I would assume Jon/Mike would literally go ham on FA. I do think you’re vastly underestimating how much better an Elite QB makes a team. An automatic playoff spot is usually the norm, and a Super Bowl win is always an extremely good chance as long as your roster is somewhat above-average. 

Vehemently disagree sorry. The Tampa game was close and they ran away at the end when our D collapsed after the O couldn't keep digging us out. Denver had an all star D, really, really good. They signed Manning and added one or two pieces. 

The post I was responding to was referencing trading for Julio Jones not a QB. We agree on a lot of things but the Raiders QB is not one of them! Carr us a very good QB that can take us far. We need to IMO build the team first before we even think about a different QB. 

To pretend that Tampa Bay didn't have a stacked team is intellectually dishonest no matter how you try and spin it.

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, SimonGruber said:

I get it but last time I checked our guy Chuckie fancies offense lol. I’d love it if management got Sheldon Richardson or traded for somebody but who ?

Continue to build through draft next year, FA and possibly a value trade or two. We're not winning anything this year but the aim IMO should be to make incremental steps that means scraping into playoffs this year and with suitable recruitment possible contention the year after and onward. Both Jones and Rodgers to me are a year too early at least (for us)or they are a couple years too old.

[oakdb36]

3 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

My favorite aspect of Gannon's game was his confidence in running the system so that he would get into it with Gruden and tell him he was wrong.  Carr needs to have a good working relationship with Gruden but that includes having an honest relationship.  Sometimes you have to speak up when you disagree.  This does not seem to be in Carrs nature.  He will call out a player for messing up but crap does not flow uphill in his world.  Maybe has something to do with his faith combined with his personality.  Me personally I am the type to pull you aside and tell you my opinion away from everyone else the first time.  Do not want to undercut your authority but I will give you a look when the situation arises and if you choose to repeat the same mistake I will not care who is around.  I always give my boss the benefit of the doubt but once you prove you are incapable of make sound judgment calls I have no respect for your decision making.

Gannon should have said something to Callahan in that Super Bowl then. Gannon was nothing until Gruden made him relevant.

[reddevil]

3 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Continue to build through draft next year, FA and possibly a value trade or two. We're not winning anything this year but the aim IMO should be to make incremental steps that means scraping into playoffs this year and with suitable recruitment possible contention the year after and onward. Both Jones and Rodgers to me are a year too early at least (for us)or they are a couple years too old.

Spot on. As much as there is an understandable impatience and feeling that Grudock need to take us to the playoffs this year or it is proof they have failed, we have to be honest as to where we are. We do not have enough talent to compete and we do not have a consistent coaching group to build a foundation from.

As frustrating as it is and as disappointing as it is to know that bad decisions have prevented us from moving forward at the pace our draft currency should have allowed - we are where we are. Don’t blow everything up on the unrealistic notion that Julio Jones will take us to the promised land.

We do have a few young pieces and there are some (albeit meagre) green shoots. I am not one to pin everything on hope, but equally, let’s not put all our chips in when we know that the odds are bad.

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:38 AM, BayRaider said:

Lol this is all I need to know about your post is that you think Carr would of appeared in the Super Bowl with Tampa Bay. That is beyond laughable and one of the legit worst opinions you have offered. They wouldn’t of made the playoffs with Carr, and if they did, it would of been 9-7 over the Bears as the seventh seed. You still probably think Carr > Brady because you’re such a homer. You want to judge my QB analysis? Who was calling Brady a bum during the offseason and that his arm was toast…? When I said his arm is still fully capable. He threw lasers all year and won the Super Bowl. And you vastly underestimated how smart he is. Best pocket presence in NFL History, while Carrs pocket presence has always left a lot to be desired. 

As for your Tua claim, it’s hilarious how you call things in such fashion after one season. I actually have Green Bay over Miami in the Super Bowl this year. Mostly because of Miami’s D, but I also have Tua having a very respectable season, especially with Parker, Waddle, Gesicki, and Fuller. Of course, then you will say, “it was all his weapons!!!!”, you literally have an excuse for everything. I have never met anyone like you. 
 

Before your Super Bowl diss, I had Bucs over Chiefs all year long (Pre-Season, Mid-Season, Post-Season) while never wavering. Also 8-3 in my last 11 Super Bowls. 

 

Tom Brady is clearly one of the best QB's of all time but he is also not the same player that he was 10+ years ago.  His physical skills have clearly diminished and needs an all star cast to play at a high level.  Want proof and not your flawed opinion?  His last two years in NE he averaged 26 TD's and 9 INT's.  He goes to TB with a top tier D, the best WR corp in the NFL (Evans, Godwin, AB, Gronk) a fantastic 1/2 punch in the running game with LF and Jones and all of a sudden he throws for 40 TD's.  It's a miracle, he found the fountain of youth at 43....  Give me a break. 

I also never called Brady a bum, what I did say was that he was not coming to LV, which you we're spewing your garbage on here for months about how we we're a potential landing spot for him.  I also did say that Brady is not the same player he was 10 years ago and his skills have diminished.  Bill Belichick must have also agreed with me because he let Brady hit the road.  Do you think BB would let a prime TB hit the road?  Zero chance.

Brady would have never come to LV, he is much too smart for that, he knew this roster was a dumpster fire and he would have looked washed up here with no weapons and have to play from behind every game.  He went to an ideal situation where the QB was holing them back.  He walked into TB with a stacked all star roster, which allows homers like you, who have no clue how to evaluate QB play to still think Brady is an elite QB who can do it all on his own at 43.  That is 100 percent inaccurate and false, BB knew that Brady is not the same QB he was 10+ years ago and let him walk, Brady also knew he couldn't hang in NE anymore and went to a situation where he would not have to it all on his own.  What a smart move!

I have also never said that Carr has had or will have a more successful career that Brady.  100 percent false.  What I did say last year is that I would rather have Carr as our QB over Brady and that was based on age and how far we are from contention.  Only a fool would dump a 29 year old proven top 10ish QB for a 43 year old who has diminishing skills on a team with zero talent and a terrible D.  That is a terrible business move, something you clearly can't comprehend. 

Tua was a flat out bum last year and is exactly who I have said he was from day one.  I have to admire your persistence in thinking that he is an elite QB and still think that Herbert is a bum and a "2nd round QB."  You had Miami going deep into the playoffs last year with your boy, Mr. "elite", "can't miss prospect" "yellow jacket", "ranked over Chase Young" Tua.  If Fitz was their Qb all season long Miami would have made it in and Tua is the reason they missed the playoffs.  All he had to do was be an average game manager with that D and he couldn't even do that. Now you think he's going to the SB and somehow going to knock off Mahomes and the Chiefs.  Can you imagine Tua down by 21 in KC and having to lead a team back?  He couldn't even move the ball on our High school D last season. 

Tua has an average at best skillset, average at best arm, average at best mobility, lacks ideal intelligence (13 Wonderlic) which was the lowest by any Qb in his class, yet you still think this guy will be wearing a yellow jacket one day and his the Phins to the SB this year.  I admire your perseverance but you literally have no clue on what makes a QB good. Zero clue.... 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[Frankie2Gunz]

23 hours ago, BayRaider said:

100%, way too early for anyone to make a call on Herbert or Tua. I always wait three years, regardless if I love them or hate them. In special cases like Mahomes, that one year starting suffices… all about judgment. Neither Herbert nor Tua have proven they are studs or busts. 

While I agree and usually wait three years, I can tell pretty early when QB's don't have what it takes and I am very confidant that it will never click with Tua for the reasons mentioned above.  He does nothing at an elite level and scored the lowest in his class on the Wonderlic.  Add all of that up and he will never live up to his draft status, let alone be a better player than Chase Young which you were adamant about leading up to the draft. 

He played on a semi pro team with an elite D in college, so once again supporting cast does matter.  You clearly can't grasp that concept....

[BayRaider]

@Frankie2Gunz Funny how you complain about wonderlic. Carr had the lowest wonderic score of all starting QB’s for yearssss until Lamar came into the mix. Also a wonderlic of 21 or less has translated to mostly not good QB play throughout NFL History. The sweet spot is 24+. We’ll see if Tua can overcome it, but the concept applies to your boy as well. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

11 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

@Frankie2Gunz Funny how you complain about wonderlic. Carr had the lowest wonderic score of all starting QB’s for yearssss until Lamar came into the mix. Also a wonderlic of 21 or less has translated to mostly not good QB play throughout NFL History. The sweet spot is 24+. We’ll see if Tua can overcome it, but the concept applies to your boy as well. 

I've never said that Carr would be splitting atoms if he wasn't throwing the old pigskin around but a 20 is far better than a pathetic 13.  13 is an embarrassing score and clearly shows that Tua lacks intelligence, an ability to process and problem solve.

[drfrey13]

20 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

Gannon should have said something to Callahan in that Super Bowl then. Gannon was nothing until Gruden made him relevant.

He should have said something to him as soon as they won the AFC championship.  I do not know what happened behind the scenes but there is so much about that game that does not make sense.  Didn't they change the game plan the morning of the game but never thought to change any of the calls.

[BackinBlack]

[MrOaktown_56]

4 hours ago, BackinBlack said:

I think a lot of fans and people in the forum have forgotten what it's like to not have a bottom 5 defense or actually get turnovers that help the offense.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think a lot of fans and people in the forum have forgotten what it's like to not have a bottom 5 defense or actually get turnovers that help the offense.

I think a lot of fans have forgotten what it's like to have top tier QB play it has been almost two decades...

[NCOUGHMAN]

17 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think a lot of fans and people in the forum have forgotten what it's like to not have a bottom 5 defense or actually get turnovers that help the offense.

I think a lot have forgotten what’s like to not have to kick redzone fgs 90% of the time 

[NYRaider]

Just now, NCOUGHMAN said:

I think a lot have forgotten what’s like to not have to kick redzone fgs 90% of the time 

I forgot what it was like for the QB not to fumble twice per game.