2021 NFL Draft Thread

[NYRaider]

54 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

The Colts drafted one in the top five a few years back. It worked out for them. But I 100% know what you mean. Guard is like the canon fodder position of the NFL

Guard's can be found later in the draft for sure. But with Richie out and Gabe not playing as well last season, look at how it effected our run blocking and red zone offense. If we're going to take an OG I'd prefer Trey Smith later in the draft. 

[ronjon1990]

Just now, Humble_Beast said:

if we could trade up to 10-12 to draft Micah Parson I'll be all over that. Wonder if we could make it happen with just a 3rd

I'd honestly rather stand pat at 17. If he falls to us, grab him and smile. But I'm not real big on trading up for anyone this year. 

I think Parsons is fantastic. Probably a game changer. But we've got too many holes in important areas to give up draft capital, and we certainly didn't do much to fill them via FA. 

Rounds 1-3, we've got 4 picks. OT, OG, CB, FS, and IDL are all things we really should address. We're already gonna be relying on a 4th or later to address one of those.. Going after a LB and giving up even one of the 4 picks to move up all but guarantees 3 major needs won't be addressed until day 3, and we really need starting caliber guys at each. 

Again, I love Parsons, but unless he's a steal you can't pass up, we gotta focus on improving our glaring deficiencies before we worry about improving upon serviceable players. 

[BayRaider]

25 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Well.... if we take Jenkins, and he does well, you can definitely be the guy who called it lol. I admire the dedication at least. 

[big_palooka]

7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We've seen it time and time again, pocket passers taken early in the draft that bust. Goff, Wentz, Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield (he's pretty good), and Tribusky all busted. While guys taken later with better physical tools/mobility have gone on to become better plays with guys like Dak, Allen, Jackson, Mahomes, and Watson. 

This is a hot mess. Wentz and Trubisky for one are not pocket passers. Darnold is very athletic as well. And outside Rosen, none of those guys have completely busted. Allen was drafted 7th overall. Those guys taken later also when to good teams. 

The guys taken early are often drafted to poor teams with no talent picking high in the draft. Mahomes, Jackson, Dak would look a hell of a lot different playing for the Jaguars, Jets and Bengals of the league.

Whatever QB goes to SF will have a far better shot at success then the QBs taken in Jax and NY. 

14 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Has Shanhan really earned the benefit of the doubt? Not sure why he is viewed as some transcendent coach/QB guru. He's 29-35 as a head coach with 1 winning season in 4 years with the 49ers. And in 13 years as a HC/OC his offenses have ranked in the top 10 in scoring offense in 4/13 seasons and in the bottom half of the league in 9/13 seasons. 

Again.. what a lazy skewed argument. Maybe look at WHY that's the case. He traded for Jimmy G after an 0-9 start in 2017. Then finished 6-10 on the year. Lost him week 3 to an ACL in 2018. 2019, they were 2nd in the league in scoring when he's healthy. Lost him again 2020 along with several other key players

He was in a Superbowl in 2019. He coached another offense to a Superbowl in Atlanta. An offense that #1 in the league in scoring.

His offenses have proven among the leagues best when he has a QB. So yes, he gets the benefit of the doubt to choose a QB for his offense that has proven when the QB is right, he can compete with anyone.

 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Again.. what a lazy skewed argument. Maybe look at WHY that's the case. He traded for Jimmy G after an 0-9 start in 2017. Then finished 6-10 on the year. Lost him week 3 to an ACL in 2018. 2019, they were 2nd in the league in scoring when he's healthy. Lost him again 2020 along with several other key players

He was in a Superbowl in 2019. He coached another offense to a Superbowl in Atlanta. An offense that #1 in the league in scoring.

His offenses have proven among the leagues best when he has a QB. So yes, he gets the benefit of the doubt to choose a QB for his offense that has proven when the QB is right, he can compete with anyone.

9/13 years his offenses have ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring. In the 2/4 years his offenses ranked in the top 10 they had the best running game in the league, 1/4 years he had Matt Ryan who was already a great player, and the other year he had Schaub who he did help play better. 

He also had Kirk Cousins and RG3 during the early stages of their career and neither guy played that well in his offense. RG3 was injured but Cousins exploded into one of the more productive QB's in the league once Shanahan left. He also coached a young Johnny Manziel in Cleveland who did nothing and busted. 

So he has had 3 offenses that have ranked in the top 5 in scoring and those 3 offenses ranked 5th, 2nd, and 1st in rushing yards. 

Shanahan has never had a young QB that he developed into some great player. When the 49ers made the Super Bowl it was because of their running game and defense. And in Atlanta he had Matt Ryan who had already proven to be one of the best QB's in the league. 

Gruden has won 40% of his games as our head coach and people are calling for his head, yet Shanahan has won 45% of his games in San Francisco and is viewed as some QB guru/offensive Demi god. 

In 13 years as a HC/OC he has made the playoffs 3 times, once with Washington, once with Atlanta, and once with San Francisco. So in 3/13 years with the right QB he has proven he can compete with anyone, dude is definitely a QB genius. 

[NYRaider]

@big_palooka Shanahan, the QB guru, traded for Jimmy G and then decided (he runs the show like Gruden does here) to give him the biggest contract in NFL history at the time when he had only started 7 games in his career at that point. And even in the one year he was healthy he was just good, not great, passing for 3,900 yards, 27 TD, and 13 INT while being able to lean on an elite run game and defense. And Jimmy missed some big throws in the Super Bowl which ultimately cost them the game. 

It clearly wasn't a great decision to pay Jimmy G, an unproven player who had never been a full time starter what they did. I mean they just traded 3 1st round picks to move up in the draft and take his replacement. 

But this is someone that deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to QB evaluation? 

[big_palooka]

10 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Gruden has won 40% of his games as our head coach and people are calling for his head, yet Shanahan has won 45% of his games in San Francisco and is viewed as some QB guru/offensive Demi god. 

Because Shanahan has not had a healthy QB. When he did, they went to the Superbowl. 

Whatever... not going to argue something I don't care about. Your stats are redundant and don't tell the whole picture. And in some cases you don't know what the hell you're even talking about. Example, he was forced to play Manziel by ownership and quit in Cleveland because of it. 

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

Guard's can be found later in the draft for sure. But with Richie out and Gabe not playing as well last season, look at how it effected our run blocking and red zone offense. If we're going to take an OG I'd prefer Trey Smith later in the draft. 

Trey Smith is a guy I also really like. It's a great year to need offensive lineman

[big_palooka]

6 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

@big_palooka Shanahan, the QB guru, traded for Jimmy G and then decided (he runs the show like Gruden does here) to give him the biggest contract in NFL history at the time when he had only started 7 games in his career at that point. And even in the one year he was healthy he was just good, not great, passing for 3,900 yards, 27 TD, and 13 INT while being able to lean on an elite run game and defense. And Jimmy missed some big throws in the Super Bowl which ultimately cost them the game. 

It clearly wasn't a great decision to pay Jimmy G, an unproven player who had never been a full time starter what they did. I mean they just traded 3 1st round picks to move up in the draft and take his replacement. 

But this is someone that deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to QB evaluation? 

They traded  a 2 for Jimmy G. He was in the last year of his rookie deal. He came in mid season and went 6-1 and was an ascending QB about to hit free agency. They had to extend him. He'd have gotten paid in FA.

 

[Jeremy408]

29 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

9/13 years his offenses have ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring. In the 2/4 years his offenses ranked in the top 10 they had the best running game in the league, 1/4 years he had Matt Ryan who was already a great player, and the other year he had Schaub who he did help play better. 

He also had Kirk Cousins and RG3 during the early stages of their career and neither guy played that well in his offense. RG3 was injured but Cousins exploded into one of the more productive QB's in the league once Shanahan left. He also coached a young Johnny Manziel in Cleveland who did nothing and busted. 

So he has had 3 offenses that have ranked in the top 5 in scoring and those 3 offenses ranked 5th, 2nd, and 1st in rushing yards. 

Shanahan has never had a young QB that he developed into some great player. When the 49ers made the Super Bowl it was because of their running game and defense. And in Atlanta he had Matt Ryan who had already proven to be one of the best QB's in the league. 

Gruden has won 40% of his games as our head coach and people are calling for his head, yet Shanahan has won 45% of his games in San Francisco and is viewed as some QB guru/offensive Demi god. 

In 13 years as a HC/OC he has made the playoffs 3 times, once with Washington, once with Atlanta, and once with San Francisco. So in 3/13 years with the right QB he has proven he can compete with anyone, dude is definitely a QB genius. 

I've said it 100 times: Having a defense changes the narrative. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

They traded  a 2 for Jimmy G. He was in the last year of his rookie deal. He came in mid season and went 6-1 and was an ascending QB about to hit free agency. They had to extend him. He'd have gotten paid in FA.

How well is giving a player with 7 career starts the biggest contract in NFL history at the time working out for them? So well that they just traded 3 1st round picks to draft his replacement and have had 1 winning season in the last 4 years? Shanahan and Lynch are geniuses.

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Because Shanahan has not had a healthy QB. When he did, they went to the Superbowl. 

Whatever... not going to argue something I don't care about. Your stats are redundant and don't tell the whole picture. And in some cases you don't know what the hell you're even talking about. Example, he was forced to play Manziel by ownership and quit in Cleveland because of it. 

If you do something 3 times in 13 years are you considered a guru? It was Shanahan's decision to trade for Jimmy G and pay him when he was an unproven player. Now this guy is someone that should be given the benefit of the doubt to pick another QB? 

The only other two years his offenses were elite he had Matt Ryan who was an established QB before Shanahan arrived. And RG3 who put up meh passing numbers but they had an elite running game. 

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I've said it 100 times: Having a defense changes the narrative. 

That's why I don't understand why Saleh is viewed as some amazing coach either. He had one year with an elite defense that was absolutely loaded with talent. And in his other 3 years as the 49ers DC they allowed 25.1 ppg (more than we allowed with KNJ) and had a losing record all 3 years. 

Jack Del Rio, Bill Musgrave, KNJ, and Reggie McKenzie's 3 years together were as successful as John Lynch, Kyle Shanahan, and Robert Saleh's 4 years together, sans the Super Bowl appearance but Carr got hurt late in the year the one season we had a chance to make a run. 

[big_palooka]

16 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

How well is giving a player with 7 career starts the biggest contract in NFL history at the time working out for them? So well that they just traded 3 1st round picks to draft his replacement and have had 1 winning season in the last 4 years? Shanahan and Lynch are geniuses.

Just going to ignore the fact another team would have signed him to a similar contract? And the fact he's been injured in 3 of the 4 seasons since he was signed?

 

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Just going to ignore the fact another team would have signed him to a similar contract? And the fact he's been injured in 3 of the 4 seasons since he was signed?

There have only been two teams in recent NFL history to give unproven QB's mega contracts, the Texans with Brock Osweiler and the 49ers with Jimmy G. How well did either of those moves pan out? In 13 years as a HC/OC when has Shanahan ever been a part of a team that acquired a QB via the draft or free agency that worked out well during his time with the team? Never, lol.