2021 Draft Thread

[drew39k]

7 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

If all we had to do was give up #2 or #2 + Sam that's a slam dunk.

We know what Watson is, we don't know what Fields/Wilson will become.

I don't want to draft a QB at two and even I would happily deal #2 + Darnold for Watson. Bonafide Probowl QB for a pair of lottery tickets? Deal. Who ever gets picked at #2 is FAR more likely to be a bust than Watson is and Darnold is going to have do do a lot to overcome his current bust status.

[Bobby816]

32 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

If all we had to do was give up #2 or #2 + Sam that's a slam dunk.

We know what Watson is, we don't know what Fields/Wilson will become.

Certainly a good point.

But having a guy on a rookie deal rather than making 30mill Per, is a big difference in how you can build the rest of the roster.

We trade for Watson and even give a small package like you say. We then can’t go as big in FA. Meaning less weapons around Watson. Where if we just plan on drafting a QB at 2... we have 90+mill in cap space to help our rookie QB. As well as an additional pick we could acquire for Darnold. 

[jetsfan4life51]

6 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Certainly a good point.

But having a guy on a rookie deal rather than making 30mill Per, is a big difference in how you can build the rest of the roster.

We trade for Watson and even give a small package like you say. We then can’t go as big in FA. Meaning less weapons around Watson. Where if we just plan on drafting a QB at 2... we have 90+mill in cap space to help our rookie QB. As well as an additional pick we could acquire for Darnold. 

Watson has Fuller and Cooks.  Fuller never plays a full season.  He lost a top 2 WR in the league and then turned around and had an insane year.  Accounted for 80 something % of his teams yards.  Only other QB to do that was Joe Montana when the 49ers won the Super Bowl.  We could go Watson then Wyatt Davis and WR.  Imagine Watson with a good OL and decent weapons.

[Bobby816]

51 minutes ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Watson has Fuller and Cooks.  Fuller never plays a full season.  He lost a top 2 WR in the league and then turned around and had an insane year.  Accounted for 80 something % of his teams yards.  Only other QB to do that was Joe Montana when the 49ers won the Super Bowl.  We could go Watson then Wyatt Davis and WR.  Imagine Watson with a good OL and decent weapons.

They went 4-12 so he didn’t do enough for them to even be competitive.

 

Not saying Watson isn’t good. It’s just saying he’s not a guy that you can bring in and he’s just going to win Bc his skill set. He needs things around him. And if we trade for him. We are taking on that cap as well as trading draft picks that could be used to help a QB.

 

I’ll give a hypothetical... we trade both 1sts this year for Watson.

Do you think Watson and his pretty much 90mill still guaranteed to him, is worth Justin Fields and let’s say Najee Harris? And also think what we could do with that 30mill average cap hit he has. We could get Thuney and Godwin with that money.

 

Fields, Harris, Thuney, Godwin >>>>> Watson

[KimuraGod]

I’d do #2 and maybe a mid round pick but that’s about my limit. Not because of the the player but more the picks/cash he’d cost and like @Bobby816 said it’s the whole package to consider. 
 

However to sweeten the deal if hypothetically it cost #2, Sam Darnold and a 2022 mid round pick I’d do it. Still can get him a #1 reciever in free agency and then grab Davis/Harris with our 1st and 2nd round picks. 
 

Offense would be:

Qb: Watson, Rb: Harris, O-Line: Becton, Elfien, McGovern, Davis, Fant, Te: Herndon, Wr: FA, Mims, Crowder, Perriman. 
 

Would be our best offense in 20+ years. 

[Bobby816]

51 minutes ago, xenajets said:

I’d do #2 and maybe a mid round pick but that’s about my limit. Not because of the the player but more the picks/cash he’d cost and like @Bobby816 said it’s the whole package to consider. 
 

However to sweeten the deal if hypothetically it cost #2, Sam Darnold and a 2022 mid round pick I’d do it. Still can get him a #1 reciever in free agency and then grab Davis/Harris with our 1st and 2nd round picks. 
 

Offense would be:

Qb: Watson, Rb: Harris, O-Line: Becton, Elfien, McGovern, Davis, Fant, Te: Herndon, Wr: FA, Mims, Crowder, Perriman. 
 

Would be our best offense in 20+ years. 

At that price I’d do it. But to give up 2 or 3 1st and Darnold for him. Is just WAY too much.

As I said I like Watson a ton. But how can you sell me that he’s a difference maker when he won only 4 games this year? 

[Bobby816]

The way I see it is only us and WAS can afford him. Who have high draft picks, need a QB and have cap space.

Watson has a no trade clause. HOU doesn’t have a lot of leverage here. 

[KimuraGod]

27 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

At that price I’d do it. But to give up 2 or 3 1st and Darnold for him. Is just WAY too much.

As I said I like Watson a ton. But how can you sell me that he’s a difference maker when he won only 4 games this year? 

I agree my man. Can’t be trading the farm away otherwise we end up in same situation as the Texans now. 
 

In years past when teams have traded up into the top 2 picks to get a qb they’ve traded multiple 1st and 2nds. If we traded #2 to Washington it would cost them 2/3 first round picks plus 2nds and 4ths. 

So our #2 is really like giving the Texans a bounty anyway. Throw in Darnold and they have another trade chip worth 2/3rd round pick plus extras. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by xenajets

[Bobby816]

3 minutes ago, xenajets said:

I agree my man. Can’t be trading the farm away otherwise we end up in same situation as the Texans now. 
 

In years past when teams have traded up into the top 2 picks to get a qb they’ve traded multiple 1st and 2nds. If we traded #2 to Washington it would cost them 2/3 first round picks plus 2nds and 4ths. 

So our #2 is really like giving the Texans a bounty anyway. Throw in Darnold and they have another trade chip worth 2/3rd round pick plus extras. 

I'd trade Darnold and our 2nd pick for him and maybe even a mid rounder this year or next year (heck throw in the SEA 3rd maybe). That's the #2 pick in the draft. Which is CRAZY valuable. A 23yr old QB and a mid rounder.

We would get Watson, still hold the SEA 1st and have all the rest of our picks.

As I stated the list of teams that can afford him, have the draft capital to get him and that he'd waive his no trade clause for... is incredibly small.

Let's also not forget that HOU has lost leverage bc he's requested a trade. When a player typically does that, it lowers the value bc the other teams know he wants out. Now the other side of this is that they by no means HAVE TO trade him bc he has a contract. Yes they need to shed about 30mill in cap space, but there's other ways to do that then trade him. My point being... it appears that HOU NEEDS TO trade him more so than the Jets NEED Watson.

Getting a QB is HUGE but as I mentioned taking on his salary, I wouldn't want that to limit us in FA. We'd still have to go hard after Thuney or Scherff as well as one of the top WRs. Watson showed that he's crazy talented. But he alone doesn't win games.

[Jag68Sid87]

12 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Certainly a good point.

But having a guy on a rookie deal rather than making 30mill Per, is a big difference in how you can build the rest of the roster.

We trade for Watson and even give a small package like you say. We then can’t go as big in FA. Meaning less weapons around Watson. Where if we just plan on drafting a QB at 2... we have 90+mill in cap space to help our rookie QB. As well as an additional pick we could acquire for Darnold. 

 

12 hours ago, jetsfan4life51 said:

Watson has Fuller and Cooks.  Fuller never plays a full season.  He lost a top 2 WR in the league and then turned around and had an insane year.  Accounted for 80 something % of his teams yards.  Only other QB to do that was Joe Montana when the 49ers won the Super Bowl.  We could go Watson then Wyatt Davis and WR.  Imagine Watson with a good OL and decent weapons.

 

Yeah, Bobby raises a good point but Watson is a true playmaking quarterback. So, you may not need the same amount of "weapons" around him to win. 

Ideally, you draft Sewell at No. 2 and then complete the Watson trade after by surrendering the Seattle pick and 2021 first and second round picks or maybe Darnold, a second in 2020 and two firsts in 2021. Something like that.

Somehow, I think this situation will smooth over in Houston but maybe it gets contentious like the Cousins situation in Washington and the Prescott situation in Dallas. Who knows?

[Bobby816]

In an ideal world where I take everything into account. Watson's ability, age, contract, no trade clause, teams that can afford him, teams that have the draft capital to trade for him, etc. I do see us as a potential landing spot for him with a few other teams. It'd be hard to argue that we cant offer the best package for him given our draft capital (2nd overall pick and SEA next 2 1sts along with our own 1st in 2022). Whether JD sees it as worth it is the question. Comes down to what HOU is demanding. HOU is just not hiring a new GM in Caserio. A guy that's been with the NE organization for 12 years (since he's 33). Very smart guy that you'd think knows how to build a team. I'm sure HOU's priority will be to try and get Watson to stay. And in all honesty... I see this as the most likely situation. New GM wont want to start bad right away after O'Brien killed the franchise the last couple years. Caserio sitting down with Watson and explaining to him the vision for the team is IMO what will happen. But in the event of a trade where Watson still by all means wants out. He doesn't exactly hold the cards for this. He just signed a new deal. Holding out is not an option. He's in essence stuck there if Caserio doesn't get a big package for him. So now we will get into what the cost will be. As I just mentioned Caserio isn't going to give him away. Watson has no leverage. So if he wants to trade him to get the headache away and maybe try and get his own QB and wants a big draft haul... that price would have to be met by a trade partner.

Now I'll get into what an ideal scenario (if we were to trade for him) for me would entail.

Smartest thing for the Jets would be to trade Darnold before hand. And here's why. We trade for Watson 1st... then that significantly lowers Darnolds trade value. We trade Darnold before trying to get Watson. It's nothing surprising people... just shows the cards that we are going to draft a QB at 2 or making a Watson trade. Which doesn't matter to us. But we get the best value for Darnold this way. So let's just say we get a late 2nd or early 3rd for Darnold and a conditional 2022 pick (based on starts). So in an optimistic situation... this now gives us the 2nd overall pick, SEA 1st, 34th pick, late 2nd for Darnold, our 3rd and SEA 3rd. That's roughly 4 picks in the top 60 and 7 picks in the top 100 (including our 4th). All this along with still having SEA 1st in 2022. So we have more draft capital to offer HOU than any other team by a significant amount.

 

So here's what my trade would be...

Trade Darnold for that late 2nd or early 3rd and a conditional pick.

We then trade #2 Overall (a HUGE value for HOU) and our 1st in 2022 for Deshaun Watson.

This situation allows us to still hold 1sts in both these next 2 drafts. But it will be late 1sts bc its's SA 1st and not our own. Why are we offering our 1st instead of SEA's 1st? Bc HOU thinks we will be the worse team in 2022, so our 1st is more valuable to them than the SEA 2022 1st. If the value is a tad short... sure throw a 3rd or something in there to sweeten up the deal.

 

This situation helps HOU in that they get to draft whoever they like in Fields or Wilson at 2, shed the cap space they need to free up and have 2 1st next year to build around there new QB.

 

For us we get a franchise QB. Still have a 1st this year and next year. And still have 2 2nds and 2 3rds this year. As well as still having a 1st next year as well.

 

In essence when you look at in the big picture... we're trading away our high 1st round draft picks and keeping our lower 1st round draft picks.

I think for those who think the value isn'tnt there in the trade need to think about it. When you look at most trade packages involving 1st rounders. It normally includes just moving back in Round 1. In a trade like this we are getting no picks. So the 2nd overall pick isn't us swapping 1sts with HOU. So that 2nd overall pick comes with (in essence) a 2 1st round pick value. Us throwing in our 1st next year equates to us in essence IMO trading 3 1sts for Watson. Which seems fair.

[KimuraGod]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

In an ideal world where I take everything into account. Watson's ability, age, contract, no trade clause, teams that can afford him, teams that have the draft capital to trade for him, etc. I do see us as a potential landing spot for him with a few other teams. It'd be hard to argue that we cant offer the best package for him given our draft capital (2nd overall pick and SEA next 2 1sts along with our own 1st in 2022). Whether JD sees it as worth it is the question. Comes down to what HOU is demanding. HOU is just not hiring a new GM in Caserio. A guy that's been with the NE organization for 12 years (since he's 33). Very smart guy that you'd think knows how to build a team. I'm sure HOU's priority will be to try and get Watson to stay. And in all honesty... I see this as the most likely situation. New GM wont want to start bad right away after O'Brien killed the franchise the last couple years. Caserio sitting down with Watson and explaining to him the vision for the team is IMO what will happen. But in the event of a trade where Watson still by all means wants out. He doesn't exactly hold the cards for this. He just signed a new deal. Holding out is not an option. He's in essence stuck there if Caserio doesn't get a big package for him. So now we will get into what the cost will be. As I just mentioned Caserio isn't going to give him away. Watson has no leverage. So if he wants to trade him to get the headache away and maybe try and get his own QB and wants a big draft haul... that price would have to be met by a trade partner.

Now I'll get into what an ideal scenario (if we were to trade for him) for me would entail.

Smartest thing for the Jets would be to trade Darnold before hand. And here's why. We trade for Watson 1st... then that significantly lowers Darnolds trade value. We trade Darnold before trying to get Watson. It's nothing surprising people... just shows the cards that we are going to draft a QB at 2 or making a Watson trade. Which doesn't matter to us. But we get the best value for Darnold this way. So let's just say we get a late 2nd or early 3rd for Darnold and a conditional 2022 pick (based on starts). So in an optimistic situation... this now gives us the 2nd overall pick, SEA 1st, 34th pick, late 2nd for Darnold, our 3rd and SEA 3rd. That's roughly 4 picks in the top 60 and 7 picks in the top 100 (including our 4th). All this along with still having SEA 1st in 2022. So we have more draft capital to offer HOU than any other team by a significant amount.

 

So here's what my trade would be...

Trade Darnold for that late 2nd or early 3rd and a conditional pick.

We then trade #2 Overall (a HUGE value for HOU) and our 1st in 2022 for Deshaun Watson.

This situation allows us to still hold 1sts in both these next 2 drafts. But it will be late 1sts bc its's SA 1st and not our own. Why are we offering our 1st instead of SEA's 1st? Bc HOU thinks we will be the worse team in 2022, so our 1st is more valuable to them than the SEA 2022 1st. If the value is a tad short... sure throw a 3rd or something in there to sweeten up the deal.

 

This situation helps HOU in that they get to draft whoever they like in Fields or Wilson at 2, shed the cap space they need to free up and have 2 1st next year to build around there new QB.

 

For us we get a franchise QB. Still have a 1st this year and next year. And still have 2 2nds and 2 3rds this year. As well as still having a 1st next year as well.

 

In essence when you look at in the big picture... we're trading away our high 1st round draft picks and keeping our lower 1st round draft picks.

I think for those who think the value isn'tnt there in the trade need to think about it. When you look at most trade packages involving 1st rounders. It normally includes just moving back in Round 1. In a trade like this we are getting no picks. So the 2nd overall pick isn't us swapping 1sts with HOU. So that 2nd overall pick comes with (in essence) a 2 1st round pick value. Us throwing in our 1st next year equates to us in essence IMO trading 3 1sts for Watson. Which seems fair.

I’m not sure you know.....

*Washington traded three 1st round picks plus a 2nd rounder. 
*The Rams traded two 1st round picks, two 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders. 
 

That #2 pick in a rich qb draft is ******* so high it’s unheard of. It’s a proper bounty level trade chip. We CANNOT get tricked into trading it away like it’s just a normal 1st round pick. 
 

I would trade Seattle’s two 1st round picks, our 2nd and next years 3rd for Deshaun. Then trade that #2 away for more picks than we would know what to mock with 😎

[CWood21]

18 hours ago, Heymangold said:

I’d trade the Seattle picks + Darnold for Watson.  I don’t wanna give up #2. We earned that. Haha

IF you're the Texans, why would you even answer the phone for that offer?

[CWood21]

18 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Certainly a good point.

But having a guy on a rookie deal rather than making 30mill Per, is a big difference in how you can build the rest of the roster.

We trade for Watson and even give a small package like you say. We then can’t go as big in FA. Meaning less weapons around Watson. Where if we just plan on drafting a QB at 2... we have 90+mill in cap space to help our rookie QB. As well as an additional pick we could acquire for Darnold. 

It's the Khalil Mack discussion all over again.  Except you're taking the positional value out of it since you're dealing with the most valuable position in all of professional sports.  At the end of the day, it depends on your evaluation of QB2.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, xenajets said:

I would trade Seattle’s two 1st round picks, our 2nd and next years 3rd for Deshaun. Then trade that #2 away for more picks than we would know what to mock with

And Houston would promptly hang up the phone and not call back.