Would you rather have cheap Dalton or expensive Prescott?

[TheGame316]

20 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

I've seen stuff like this before, but I don't see how those points negate whether or not an effective running game improves QB play. Any QB in the NFL would take having an effective running game over not having one.

Source on this? That's never how I've seen Wentz.

Nah, he was very impressive down the stretch last year. I've liked him for a while.

Fair point, but I'm not claiming either of those guys have a top 5-10 argument like you are with Dak. I think they're all on that same tier. 

Matts likes to cherry pick charts and graphs that make Dak look good

He will oppose or call into question any graph, chart or stat that makes Dak look mediocre or average

Looks to me like Dak sucks when under pressure. Which means he will always require a talented OLine to be productive. We've seen him with an injured OLine (Not Good) without Zeke (Not Good) and before he had Cooper (Not Good) - These are Matts go to excuses when Dak struggles (PS - It's NEVER on Dak)

Seems Dak need to be surrounded by talent and the offense firing on all cylinders to be productive. But most of us already knew that

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

The chart includes Kyler Murray and Gardner Minshew. It's pretty definitely 2019.

Interesting. I wonder what happened from 2018 where he was much higher:

 

My guess is the fact we were throwing deep more often.

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Pure curiosity, what's the source for this chart? I'm curious what plays they're omitting entirely. Just because, per the chart, Wilson has a higher QB rating when pressured and when not pressured than he does overall. On the flip side, Jackson has a worse QB rating when pressured and not than he does overall. Which isn't statistically possible if the chart is comprehensive. So some plays must be missing from this, for some reason or another. So not sure if they're just counting passes from the pocket, or if they're taking out plays that are kind of on the line, or what, but this definitely doesn't include all plays.

No idea where it’s from. I remember seeing it on reddit. I see what you’re saying. Something is missing.

[Soko]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:57 PM, lancerman said:

There’s a lot of evidence that cap percentage of the QB effects the ability to win a title.

Not entirely correct. Causation, correlation, all that. Using the end result of ‘not winning a title’ does not prove the hypothesis. It merely highlights the correlation, it doesn’t prove the effect (or lack thereof). 

I’d have as much credence in saying: Joe Thomas never won a title because his name is cursed, and there’s lots of evidence to prove that. An extreme, but you get the point. 

Not saying an expensive QB (above 12%) doesn’t limit teams and possibly worsen the overall roster quality, but I don’t think the end result is necessarily a good measure for that. You can probably look at any single stat, measurement, or ranking and the large majority wouldn’t be SB champs. 

If we look at every SB champ, how many have a little cap space leftover? Cap space that if given to the QB for that season, would push them over 12%? 

[JAF-N72EX]

I'm not a big Dak fan but this is a pretty easy to decision to make. 

I'd rather take my chances on a dual threat like Dak's and being able to further develop him then take my chances on a turnover prone QB in his mid-thirties. 

There's a reason why Dalton was unemployed until after the draft while every all other FA QB found jobs. 

[TheGame316]

34 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I'm not a big Dak fan but this is a pretty easy to decision to make. 

I'd rather take my chances on a dual threat like Dak's and being able to further develop him then take my chances on a turnover prone QB in his mid-thirties. 

There's a reason why Dalton was unemployed until after the draft while every all other FA QB found jobs. 

Dalton didn't get released by Cincinnati until a week after the draft 

Until then he was under contract and not a FA

[Chuck80]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:50 AM, Matts4313 said:

lol - Do you know anything about Dak? He is so far ahead  Goff and Wentz its not even funny. The only QB in the last ~20 years who have had a better first 4 years (individual, not team) is Russell Wilson. Though I expect Mahomes/Jackson/Watson to challenge or surpass him. 

Every single analytical site out there will tell you he is somewhere between a top 5 to top 10 QB. 

No one said Dak sucks, this was the same argument made for Flacco years back, as him no one said he sucked just not worth the price he wants, Stats are how QBs are paid not wins or loses , is it sometimes wrong? Yes but that's how it is 

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Chuck80 said:

No one said Dak sucks, this was the same argument made for Flacco years back, as him no one said he sucked just not worth the price he wants, Stats are how QBs are paid not wins or loses , is it sometimes wrong? Yes but that's how it is 

Dak has both the stats and the wins. Along with intangibles. 

Also, Daks first 4 years are way, way, way better than Flacco. The only QB with a better start to their career in recent memory is Russell Wilson. 

[TheGame316]

7 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak has both the stats and the wins. Along with intangibles. 

Also, Daks first 4 years are way, way, way better than Flacco. The only QB with a better start to their career in recent memory is Russell Wilson. 

8 wins most recently

Teams are all about trying to find a guy to get them 8 wins

[Nabbs4u]

On 5/4/2020 at 10:11 PM, Turnobili said:

if your only Dak option is 40/year I think its pure hyperbole.

The fact that is the only option for this poll and not the going rate for a FQB of $35M Dak is ultimately and realistically asking for (eclipsing Goff/Wentz contract),  is in itself a joke to skew the results.

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Nabbs4u

[Danger]

At 40 Million per? Give me Dalton.

[JAF-N72EX]

On 5/11/2020 at 1:35 AM, TheGame316 said:

Dalton didn't get released by Cincinnati until a week after the draft 

Until then he was under contract and not a FA

He didn't have the official "free agent" title but the Bengals have openly been trying to shop him for the last 5 months or so and it was no secret to anyone that Burrow was going to be their #1 pick and Dalton was going to be available. Essentially, he was a free agent since the end of the regular season but he is not a starting caliber QB and has no upside at this point in his career. 

It says alot about what Gms and coaches really think about Dalton when Bridgewater, Mariota, Cam, Foles, Winston and every other QB drafted find a new home before he does. That's some pretty low standards even as a backup QB  

[JAF-N72EX]

Skimping through this thread begs the question.......when will people stop associating TEAM wins to QB's? 

[lavar703]

I mean, I guess I'd rather have Dak. It's just not that easy to find a QB who's been as good as he has thus far. 

[SmittyBacall]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Essentially, he was a free agent since the end of the regular season but he is not a starting caliber QB

This just isn’t true. He’s a very capable starter. He won 70 games over a 9 year span since his rookie season. He had a 5-year stretch during his career in which he went 43-26-1 and lead the Bengals to the playoffs 5 consecutive years. That’s not a career backup getting lucky. You can call him an average starter or a below average starter, but he’s certainly still a starting caliber QB; he has the resume to back that up. Nothing has changed skillset wise since then. I’d actually argue he’s better now than he was for major parts of that 5 year stretch.

6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It says alot about what Gms and coaches really think about Dalton when Bridgewater, Mariota, Cam, Foles, Winston and every other QB drafted find a new home before he does. That's some pretty low standards even as a backup QB  

First of all, just because he wasn’t dealt doesn’t mean there was zero or minimal interest. There are other factors at play here. Namely, a combination of the asking price for return compensation being too high, contract, and a flush QB market. By many reputable accounts Dalton was the first choice for Chicago, but the Bengals wanted a 3rd in which the Bears didn’t have (although they did have two 2nds). The Bears likely offered their late 4th round pick which was eventually dealt to Jacksonville for Foles. The Bengals stupidly turned it down by playing hardball. Eventually more QBs signed, spots filled, and the market dried up quick, rapidly driving down any leverage the Bengals had.

The fact that Dalton isn’t competing for a starting job right now isn’t entirely indicative of Dalton’s ability as a starting QB, as much as it is about the Bengals incompetence in terms of handling the situation. Just because guys like Winston and Dalton (and likely Newton soon) are signing for back up jobs isn’t because they aren’t starting caliber QBs, there’s just not enough jobs to go around at the moment.