JAF-N72EX Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 12:50 PM, The_Romen said: Larry Fitzgerald played with complete trash and didn't cover up their flaws, Stafford had Megatron who didn't make him some incredible, record-breaking QB. Trubs has AR, who's a great receiver in his own right, but he's not covering up bad reads, bad decisions and bad overthrows. All Stafford did was throw it up to Megatron and that netted Stafford two consecutive 5,000 yard seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: All Stafford did was throw it up to Megatron and that netted Stafford two consecutive 5,000 yard seasons. In the lockout season and after all the rule changes that got heaps of QBs huge yardage. He had a 5k season with 20 TDs lol. But yes, the best receiver in the game and (maybe ever athletically) helped a QB he was with his whole career. Those two seasons are top 8 all time with the 20 TD season being #1. 727 attempts to get close to 5k yards all while both those seasons are 63.5% completion percentage or lower. Those prolific seasons got the Lions to the exact same place as the Bears in 2018... A first round loss. As a Bears fan, I would love to have Stafford. I would love to have Matt Ryan. I'd love Watson... We're stuck with Trubisky or Foles for a year. I hope they go for 5k and 50 TDs, but it's incredibly unlikely. No receiver or OL is going to change that perception, because so far, they're not that good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafreak Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 From lofty expectations last year to hardly any this year. Things could play out favorably for Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 5 hours ago, The_Romen said: In the lockout season and after all the rule changes that got heaps of QBs huge yardage. He had a 5k season with 20 TDs lol. But yes, the best receiver in the game and (maybe ever athletically) helped a QB he was with his whole career. Those two seasons are top 8 all time with the 20 TD season being #1. 727 attempts to get close to 5k yards all while both those seasons are 63.5% completion percentage or lower. Those prolific seasons got the Lions to the exact same place as the Bears in 2018... A first round loss. As a Bears fan, I would love to have Stafford. I would love to have Matt Ryan. I'd love Watson... We're stuck with Trubisky or Foles for a year. I hope they go for 5k and 50 TDs, but it's incredibly unlikely. No receiver or OL is going to change that perception, because so far, they're not that good. The rule changes in favor of offenses have been happening since 2007. Trying to downplay the numbers and correlate those with the lockout is a huge massive reach. The lockout was 9 years ago. If that were the case then Stafford (several other QB's -- including Watson) would've already surpassed those numbers or atleast come close. But they haven't, because the only reason he even reached those numbers was because CJ balled the eff out and broke the record in receiving yards with nearly 2,000. 5,000 yards is 5,000 yards. No matter how you slice it. Save for Winston. But yeah, lets ignore 2011 where CJ accounted for 23% of Stafford's completions, 24% of his attempts, 33% of passing yards, and 39% of his 41 passing TDs. Then followed it up in 2012 where CJ accounted for 27% of his completions, 28% of his attempts, 38% of his passing yards, and 20% of his TDs. In 2013, 23, 25, 32, and 41%. Even Stafford himself has admitted to locking onto CJ. CJ could not be stopped. Double coverage, bracket coverage, zone coverage, triple coverage, quadruple coverage......it didn't matter. he drew THAT much attention which helps the rest of the offense including the QB. If you don't think great WR's can't help cover up a QB's flaws then I don't know what to tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, JAF-N72EX said: If you don't think great WR's can't help cover up a QB's flaws then I don't know what to tell you. You're right, but Stafford didn't become a top 5 QB by any means. Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler had a similar connection where Jay stared Marshall down; but Jay was a worse QB, so it didn't matter how good BM was, Jay was who he was. We're kinda arguing semantics at this point. You don't think Watson is all he's cracked up to be, I do. We value him differently... If he's a franchise QB, then he'll thrive regardless of who BOB puts in front of him. If he's a bum, he's a bum. I've been wrong plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, The_Romen said: You're right, but Stafford didn't become a top 5 QB by any means. Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler had a similar connection where Jay stared Marshall down; but Jay was a worse QB, so it didn't matter how good BM was, Jay was who he was. We're kinda arguing semantics at this point. You don't think Watson is all he's cracked up to be, I do. We value him differently... If he's a franchise QB, then he'll thrive regardless of who BOB puts in front of him. If he's a bum, he's a bum. I've been wrong plenty. Let's be honest here, Marshall is no CJ. And Jay and Marshall didn't exactly gel as much as they had led on either while they were together. We found that out later. But yes, those are just semantics. To be more clear, I don't think Watson is a bum by any means. He's a good QB, no doubt. I just don't think he is as good as most people make him out to be. For some reason, people don't seem to hold him to the same standards as every other QB. Anytime he fails or screws up, the blame is automatically wrote off and suddenly passed onto BOB or his [relatively better] supporting cast. People love to just look at raw numbers instead of actually watching the games (which alone is frustrating to me), and so, for example, when they look at his sacks they say "his OL is terrible". The same with his raw INT numbers. They think "12 isn't bad... he has a bad OL and bad OC". When in actuality it has been HIM (Watson) that has made the OL look worse than they really are. And while the RAW numbers may only read as 12 INTs on paper, that number doesn't include the other 6 passes that should've been picked off and this is with ONLY ~500 pass attempts while playing with the best WR in the league and Will Fuller opposite of him with a pretty deep group headed by Kenny Stills and Coutee. Watson had the 8th highest adjusted INT rating last year. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/adjusted-interceptions-2019 And hell, this doesn't even include his fumbles at inopportune times. See the Indy game last year. He fumbled but the refs messed up on a play that game them the win. The refs admitted later on that they screwed up. Indy went 9-7 last year because of that win and the Texans finished 10-6 and eked into the playoffs. Had the refs mad the right call, the texans go 9-7 and Indy goes 10-6. But people forget about this type of stuff.. But you're right, we'll see. It'll be interesting to see how he does without W By my own general rule, I usually give QB's 5 years to truly show what they can do before outright judging their play but only IF they show enough in the first few years to make it worth it and Watson is certainly on that list. Edited September 10, 2020 by JAF-N72EX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 The Texans OL is better than the Bears Tunsil > Leno Scharping = Daniels Martin = Whitehair Fulton > Ifedi Howard > Massie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 6 hours ago, WindyCity said: The Texans OL is better than the Bears Tunsil > Leno Scharping = Daniels Martin = Whitehair Fulton > Ifedi Howard > Massie This year we get to see if Pace and Nagy > BOB Exciting right? 🤢 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, Sugashane said: This year we get to see if Pace and Nagy > BOB Exciting right? 🤢 We do not. BOB didn't F up the QB decision. To a degree he is playing with house money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: We do not. BOB didn't F up the QB decision. To a degree he is playing with house money. He didn't have the chance to in all fairness. Tru and Mahomes were off the board and Rick Smith was the GM that picked Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Sugashane said: He didn't have the chance to in all fairness. Tru and Mahomes were off the board and Rick Smith was the GM that picked Watson. Agreed. Bill OBrien is awful. I would take Pace over him any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 9/9/2020 at 2:32 AM, JAF-N72EX said: I'm tired of the false narratives from people acting like Watson has had nothing to work with just to prop him up. His WR corps have been one of the best (when healthy). The OL has still been better than most and certainly not garbage. The same with BOB...he may be a bad GM but his play-calling is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. He ran Watson's Clemson offense his rookie year. People just need to detach Trubisky from these two players and root for our God damned QB. If you don't want to pull for the kid, that's fine, but I honestly don't know how to consider those people true Chicago Bears fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, G08 said: He ran Watson's Clemson offense his rookie year. People just need to detach Trubisky from these two players and root for our God damned QB. If you don't want to pull for the kid, that's fine, but I honestly don't know how to consider those people true Chicago Bears fans. Sadly, that's not going to happen. All 3 QB's were drafted at the same during a widely publicized trade. I think I get what you're saying here (I won't assume), but I disagree with this notion in general. You can still support the Bears in a positive light while also realizing the faults of this teams bad history with QB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 54 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: You can still support the Bears in a positive light while also realizing the faults of this teams bad history with QB's. There's nothing wrong with realizing faults of this team, history of being mediocre and laughably bad history with QBs. What I will never understand, or even accept I guess, is as a Chicago Bears FAN, not rooting for your young QB. I will never, ever understand that. Listening to local radio in the City, there are actually "fans" that are rooting for Trubisky to fail. What kind of garbage nonsense is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 12:00 AM, The_Romen said: Better regardless of who else is on it... Franchise QB is too big. You can't be serious. When his $40 mil cap hits begin start subtracting top shelf talent like the two top pass rushers we have now and a #1 WR. IMHO unless the cap skyrockets QB deals like that one will hurt teams more than having a top shelf QB will help. This has been looked into before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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