Shanedorf Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 acme did an excellent job breaking down the QB stats, the weapons, the OL and schedules in the MVP race between Mahomes and Rodgers good stuff https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/12/1/21768297/the-mvp-is-a-two-horse-race-patrick-mahomes-aaron-rodgers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: acme did an excellent job breaking down the QB stats, the weapons, the OL and schedules in the MVP race between Mahomes and Rodgers good stuff https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/12/1/21768297/the-mvp-is-a-two-horse-race-patrick-mahomes-aaron-rodgers Fantastic stuff. Thanks for posting it. I thought it was 100% fair and accurate. I’m obviously biased and want Mahomes to win it, but I can’t bring myself to root against Rodgers. I’m enjoying watching him do his thing too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 23 hours ago, BayRaider said: I would disagree here. I think Henry's season has been more impressive than Kamara's. I also think Henry is more valuable to his team, slightly. Tannehil and Henry compliment each other extremely well, and that offense doesn't work without either guy. For the Saints, Kamara has hardly even been a factor without Brees, been all Sean Payton really, and Brees is the clear engine of the offense. Also, Henry has closed out multiple games for the Titans as well. And I also think he's straight up having a better statistical year than Kamara as well. MVP is literally supposed to be who's most valuable though. Kamara is a running back and he's literally been targeted on 26% of all Drew Brees dropbacks. In a season without a healthy Michael Thomas or Emanuel Sanders for a good stretch, Kamara single-handedly carried the team to a winning record. His 2020 stats are insane video-game stuff. Who's more valuable as a running back to his team than Kamara this year? Henry is just doing Henry stuff, Kamara has elevated his game to another planet just when his team has needed him most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, Saint_James said: MVP is literally supposed to be who's most valuable though. Kamara is a running back and he's literally been targeted on 26% of all Drew Brees dropbacks. In a season without a healthy Michael Thomas or Emanuel Sanders for a good stretch, Kamara single-handedly carried the team to a winning record. His 2020 stats are insane video-game stuff. Who's more valuable as a running back to his team than Kamara this year? Henry is just doing Henry stuff, Kamara has elevated his game to another planet just when his team has needed him most. No they're not... and I can easily make an argument Henry and Dalvin Cook have contributed to more wins to their team than Kamara has. Kamara hasn't even been a factor in their two non Brees wins. Henry has closed out multiple Titan games, and Dalvin Cook has contributed more wins to his team in my opinion. Dalvin Cook with an even or winning record, would be ahead of Kamara. Both Henry and Cook are having better statistical years, especially Cook who is easily having the best statistical year for a running back. Henry is also a huge favorite to win it over Kamara. Henry is 40 to 1 odds in Vegas, while Kamara is 100 to 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, BayRaider said: No they're not... and I can easily make an argument Henry and Dalvin Cook have contributed to more wins to their team than Kamara has. Kamara hasn't even been a factor in their two non Brees wins. Henry has closed out multiple Titan games, and Dalvin Cook has contributed more wins to his team in my opinion. Dalvin Cook with an even or winning record, would be ahead of Kamara. Both Henry and Cook are having better statistical years, especially Cook who is easily having the best statistical year for a running back. Henry is also a huge favorite to win it over Kamara. Henry is 40 to 1 odds in Vegas, while Kamara is 100 to 1. theres no question Henry is the top RB MVP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 3, 2020 Author Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Malfatron said: theres no question Henry is the top RB MVP Not even sure why I entertain some people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 On 12/1/2020 at 6:54 PM, Archimedes said: Henry shouldn’t be ahead of Kamara in the MVP for the same reason Brady is nowhere near Rodgers in the MVP running. Brady has thrown the ball more, but Rodgers does far more per attempt than Brady does. Henry touches the ball more, but Kamara does far more with his actual touches. As far as his production dropping off without Brees, it’s because Taysom Hill is his qb now. Henry was similarly not as impactful when Mariotta was his qb. But this is also why RBs really shouldn’t be considered much anyway, absent BOTH conditions existing: 1) The RB has a historically dominant season, needs to be statistically quantifiable as arguably a top 3 or 4ish season all time for a RB AND 2) There are no standout performances from a qb. Saints lost the greatest receiver in football in game 1, then they lost the #2 receiver and even the #3 guy for a stretch there. Kamara stepped up and grabbed over 600 receiving yards. He's right behind those others guys in combined yards and right with them in total touchdowns. He's over 4 yards a carry, he just doesn't play in a running offense like those other guys though. BayRaider makes a great case for why Cook or Henry should win the rushing trophy or whatever, but we're talking MVP so I agree with everything you said. Kamara WAS the offense for months, he IS the MVP if any running back is MVP this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 The only way Henry should be considered over Kamara is if we’re not counting what they contribute in the passing game... I have no clue why we would do that. Kamra averages 6.3 yards per touch, while Henry averages 5.0. Kamara scores a TD on 6.1% of his touches, while Henry scores a TD on 4.4% of his touches. I could even get over the difference in efficiency between them if there was a sizable gulf in raw volume... Henry has 1350 yards from scrimmage to Kamara’s 1231, and they both have 12 TDS. That’s not nearly a big enough difference in raw volume to offset the difference in efficiency. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Just going to remind everyone that Jeff Wilson did return to the 49ers this week. It wasn't a great performance with the lost fumble, bit I figure that Mahomes also lost a fumble, so they are even in that regard. He can start to mount is attack on the award starting this week. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Archimedes said: The only way Henry should be considered over Kamara is if we’re not counting what they contribute in the passing game... I have no clue why we would do that. Kamra averages 6.3 yards per touch, while Henry averages 5.0. Kamara scores a TD on 6.1% of his touches, while Henry scores a TD on 4.4% of his touches. I could even get over the difference in efficiency between them if there was a sizable gulf in raw volume... Henry has 1350 yards from scrimmage to Kamara’s 1231, and they both have 12 TDS. That’s not nearly a big enough difference in raw volume to offset the difference in efficiency. Agree. I'm also curious what % of touches for each player results in a first down this season. Should be easy to find but Google is apparently failing me. Got a line on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Saint_James said: Agree. I'm also curious what % of touches for each player results in a first down this season. Should be easy to find but Google is apparently failing me. Got a line on that? Sure thing. Kamara generates a first down on 35.7% of his touches. Henry generates a first down on 25.2% of his touches. Overall for the season, Kamara has generated more first downs 70 to 68, on fewer touches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Archimedes said: Sure thing. Kamara generates a first down on 35.7% of his touches. Henry generates a first down on 25.2% of his touches. Overall for the season, Kamara has generated more first downs 70 to 68, on fewer touches. Dalvin Cook 38.3%. 44.1% if we include TDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Starless said: Dalvin Cook 38.3%. 44.1% if we include TDs. Hmm. Where do you see that? Pro-football reference has Cook with 74 first downs generated, 62 rushing + 12 receiving on 248 touches, for 29.8%. Also, TDs are already recorded as first downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 30 minutes ago, Archimedes said: Hmm. Where do you see that? Pro-football reference has Cook with 74 first downs generated, 62 rushing + 12 receiving on 248 touches, for 29.8%. Also, TDs are already recorded as first downs. You're right, I was looking at the wrong column. my bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 11 hours ago, Archimedes said: Sure thing. Kamara generates a first down on 35.7% of his touches. Henry generates a first down on 25.2% of his touches. Overall for the season, Kamara has generated more first downs 70 to 68, on fewer touches. Thanks, okay that seals it for me. Not sure what the other guy is seeing, but Kamara has insane production and efficiency and all the other intangibles the other guys don't. I know it won't go to a RB, it never does, but if it did Kamara gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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