The Raider Depreciation Thread 📉

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[MrOaktown_56]

On 1/6/2021 at 9:32 AM, RaidersAreOne said:

 

LOL. Mosher's takes are god awful. Abram hasn't been good but he's played 1 year. Can't call him a miss already.

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

LOL. Mosher's takes are god awful. Abram hasn't been good but he's played 1 year. Can't call him a miss already.

I disagree.... he is awful and should be replaced in the starting lineup sooner than later. He's basically DJ Swearinger except DJ had some coverage skills. 

I will gladly take the L if he turns it around, but there is nothing redeemable about his game that gives me hope. And the idea of moving him closer to the LOS is all well and good, but he's worthless in coverage going back to Miss St. Terrible, terrible pick. 

[MrOaktown_56]

3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I disagree.... he is awful and should be replaced in the starting lineup sooner than later. He's basically DJ Swearinger except DJ had some coverage skills. 

I will gladly take the L if he turns it around, but there is nothing redeemable about his game that gives me hope. And the idea of moving him closer to the LOS is all well and good, but he's worthless in coverage going back to Miss St. Terrible, terrible pick. 

I've seen Abram cover before. You see flashes. His discipline is not good. Its worse than that. It's god awful.

He's definitely been a disappointment but he also deserves a chance to turn it around. That being said, I don't mind bringing in a safety to challenge for his job, i.e. drafting one if we sign a free safety.

[big_palooka]

19 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I've seen Abram cover before. You see flashes. His discipline is not good. Its worse than that. It's god awful.

He's definitely been a disappointment but he also deserves a chance to turn it around. That being said, I don't mind bringing in a safety to challenge for his job, i.e. drafting one if we sign a free safety.

I'm admittedly harsh towards Abram and hope Bradley can help him turn it around. Lord knows all the Raiders need is a bust at safety after the last 2. 

I just saw little to nothing that suggest he will become a player worth a frp. He's not made for today's game. Plays so reckless either injuring himself or teammates regularly. It's frustrating. 

If he changed his number, maybe I'd be nicer. There is a commitment in wearing 24. 

[Geezy]

i think Abram has a skill set and place for todays NFL, can Bradley maximize his talent and reign him in a bit? Thats the question. There wasnt any accountability last year, he shouldve been benched after the 2nd KC game. If youre freelancing and doing your own thing, costing us games, you need to think that over on the bench. Hell be the starter next year, but i hope he has a much shorter leash. Is Heath a good enough back-up to threaten Abram's playing time though? If not, im cutting him and bringing in a vet who can legit steal some snaps in case Abram wants to be on the same crap as last year. My hope is that he is used more of a big nickel close to the LOS and we play to his strengths. 

[big_palooka]

51 minutes ago, Geezy said:

i think Abram has a skill set and place for todays NFL, can Bradley maximize his talent and reign him in a bit? Thats the question. There wasnt any accountability last year, he shouldve been benched after the 2nd KC game. If youre freelancing and doing your own thing, costing us games, you need to think that over on the bench. Hell be the starter next year, but i hope he has a much shorter leash. Is Heath a good enough back-up to threaten Abram's playing time though? If not, im cutting him and bringing in a vet who can legit steal some snaps in case Abram wants to be on the same crap as last year. My hope is that he is used more of a big nickel close to the LOS and we play to his strengths. 

What talent? Because to me reigning him in doesn't really address his problem. Nor does playing him closer to the LOS. He lacks ball skills and has no anticipation. He's a see ball, run to ball player who is always late, out of position or guessed wrong. Same problems in college that are translating. 

It's one thing to be a young player making some mistakes. Totally different to just visibly reckless and clueless. 

The fact we are hoping he can play close to the LOS tells you everything we need to know. He's a coverage liability so have to try and hide him. Which is awful for a first round draft pick. 

A good safety has to have instincts and anticipation. Abram is dog chasing cars. 

 

[drfrey13]

33 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

What talent? Because to me reigning him in doesn't really address his problem. Nor does playing him closer to the LOS. He lacks ball skills and has no anticipation. He's a see ball, run to ball player who is always late, out of position or guessed wrong. Same problems in college that are translating. 

It's one thing to be a young player making some mistakes. Totally different to just visibly reckless and clueless. 

The fact we are hoping he can play close to the LOS tells you everything we need to know. He's a coverage liability so have to try and hide him. Which is awful for a first round draft pick. 

A good safety has to have instincts and anticipation. Abram is dog chasing cars. 

 

Everything you say may very well be true but I believe Abram will benefit from Bradley's scheme more than anyone else.  If he can not succeed with Bradley I think it will be time to move on.  At the same time I do not expect him to pull a 180 all at once and especially if we have the offseason impacted by Covid again.

[Humble_Beast]

Abram is a dog, he will be just fine

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Abram is a dog, he will be just fine

Good, so can we start fining Gruden, Mayock, and Davis $200 for every time Abram makes a mistake and freelances under Las Vegas Municipal Code 7.36.030? 😉

Edited March 2, 2021 by ronjon1990

[ronjon1990]

6 hours ago, Geezy said:

i think Abram has a skill set and place for todays NFL, can Bradley maximize his talent and reign him in a bit? Thats the question. There wasnt any accountability last year, he shouldve been benched after the 2nd KC game. If youre freelancing and doing your own thing, costing us games, you need to think that over on the bench. Hell be the starter next year, but i hope he has a much shorter leash. Is Heath a good enough back-up to threaten Abram's playing time though? If not, im cutting him and bringing in a vet who can legit steal some snaps in case Abram wants to be on the same crap as last year. My hope is that he is used more of a big nickel close to the LOS and we play to his strengths. 

Major issues, that one. Our depth is pretty bad in most cases, and guys start by default. 

If Ferrell, Crosby, Abram, and Arnette faced competition from something more than replacement level talent, would they actually win? It's fair to ask. 

Same goes for the offense. Our WR and O-line depth are both good, and it reflects in two ways that stand out to me:

On the O-line (possibly our deepest position group), we had a lot of plug and play last year to pretty good results (Sam Young not withstanding). We lost guys quite frequently, but never really felt hopelessly lost. 

Compare and contrast that with our WRs. If Williams had managed to get healthy, say, 6 weeks in, does anyone really think Ruggs was beating Williams, Agholor, and Renfrow in the pecking order? He would've been WR4, and Edwards would've been fighting to make the roster....as a 3rd round pick. If Ruggs pans out, excellent, but the point is more that depth can make a huge difference in who plays and when, and that's a good thing. Had Ruggs needed to fight both Williams and Agholor, I bet he would've been better for it, early playing time or not. 

Same goes for our vets. Moreau has shown some major flashes, and I bet Waller takes notice. Booker showed flashes as a solid enough runner to actually (to a degree, at least) push Jacobs to perform. 

I do have to question how much pushing is actually allowed though. For example, I love Carr. But we all saw Mariota come in and command the offense with some added wrinkles to boot. Frankly, I'm not sold on Mariota yet, but I do have some questions regarding just how much he was actually even allowed to push Carr in any meaningful way beyond coachspeak.

We don't know and won't know, so it's just a hunch. But we have heard rumblings about our prevailing culture being one of lax accountability and people resting on laurels. If guys were brought in to actually challenge guys who by all accounts faced virtually zero competition and started based solely on draft status, my guess is that we'd be a much better team. 

In regards to Abram, he hasn't shown improvement, and his "competition" has more or less consisted of Harris, Heath, Riley, Leavitt, and Joseph (until Abram literally took him out). Joseph was likely a goner anyway. Riley didn't last. Harris is/should be gone. Leavitt isn't NFL material outside of maybe some STs, and Heath is...well he is what he is. None of them posed any serious threat, and Abram/the team has suffered for it.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and place that issue squarely on Gruden. I think he has a pattern in regards to guys he "wants" to succeed being given far too much leeway. 

Take the Jeff Garcia years in Tampa. Garcia was pretty well renowned as being that guy you didn't want as a backup because he could push a starter too much and potentially disrupt the order. IIRC, it's why we signed and got rid of him once upon a Walrus. But he was long past being a long term starter by the time he got to Tampa Bay. But look at his "competition": Gradkowski, McCown, Griese, Johnson. Now, in hindsight, Garcia was probably the best viable FA/Draft QB they could've gotten those years, but the point is he was never truly given competition. Drew Stanton and Trent Edwards (pre-concussions) both could've been drafted and pushed the old man who wasn't long for the NFL. But no adjustments were made and the depth continued to be replacement level. 

I'll avoid going into other positions and times because it can get even longer winded than it already has. But the history is there to see. Whatever Gruden''s "vision" is, it rarely includes meaningful competition from backups and a lot of failed experiments gone too long. And I'm already noticing some troubling parallels between his coaching stints. It's clear, though, that some of our positions have depth that shows (ironically with few of "his" guys) while "his" guys have faced minimal challenges to play time and that shows too. 

[MrOaktown_56]

Heath actually played really well. He can fill in and the defense looked a lot better with him.

[oakdb36]

22 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Heath actually played really well. He can fill in and the defense looked a lot better with him.

Ofc, he can. He was a starter for a defense that didn't finish worse than 13th against the pass. That's a perfectly fine depth player who can be trusted as a starter if need be.

[Totty]

16 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

LOL. Mosher's takes are god awful. Abram hasn't been good but he's played 1 year. Can't call him a miss already.

I would need to see a good sized leap this year unless he changes positions.  

 

A lot of mocks from guys who know more than I do schematically show him as moving to more of a hybrid LB role with Bradley as DC.  If we move him from S then I give him some time to adjust though hybrid LB and S are not that far apart. If he stays in his current role, this year is the year I need to see some juice from him.  His work ethic is there, his attitude is there.  He shows some flashes... just needs a minute to put it together.  

 

I honestly think we sign a S in FA.  Pair a centerfielder with our hammer and draft DL, LB and Corner. 

[big_palooka]

9 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Abram is a dog, he will be just fine

lol... The best thing someone can say is "he's a dog". Some worn out cliché because he's a violent hitter.  Forget  the fact he has no actual skills that translate.

10 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Everything you say may very well be true but I believe Abram will benefit from Bradley's scheme more than anyone else. 

This is off base imo, because the premise for such comments is because Cam Chancelor was a a big hitting safety under Bradley. Chancelor however was an underrated coverage player and diagnosed like a true safety.