The Tom Brady Thread

[lancerman]

4 hours ago, RUGmen said:

I don’t have any doubt Bill and the Pats will be back in the playoffs. When will that be? I don’t know. Especially now that the Bills look like SB contenders for years to come and the Dolphins are already playoff caliber and will only get better if they hit on their excess draft picks.

Will BB win a SB without Tom? I don’t know. If I had to put money on it, I would say no. To me, this year only helps Brady’s case on his OWN legacy. Disregard Bill. People always claimed he was a system QB. That is debunked. Despite the Bucs talent...43 yo and a brand new system and staff in COVID and leading the Bucs to their first playoff appearance in almost 15 years. This year proves that Brady was able to mask the offensive talent deficiencies and also mask the overrated Josh McDaniels who has proven he has done nothing without Brady.

This year doesn’t hurt Bill’s legacy but it for sure hurts the idea that you plug in a HS JV QB under center in NE and they would win and play well in his “ magical system” that Brady haters would argue for years.

Exactly this. This year proved the “Brady is a system QB who won because of his coach and that Bill could plug anybody in there and win” was just nonsense talk from people who hated that Brady had accomplished more than whoever their preferred QB was

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, rich homie said:

More so than Bill or Brady I would say Josh McDaniels is the guy who comes out looking the worst in all of this. The Adam Gase vibes from him are off the charts for me.

I don’t know how you blame Josh when he has 

-a washed up QB who can barely throw 

-a 4th round nobody behind the washed QB

-no TE’s to speak of 

-a WR Corp with a 1st bust, Edelman injured and out all year, and two role players who would be at best 3rd and 4th options on another team 

-an inconsistent offensive line where the best player is habitually out of the lineup.

[lancerman]

59 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

Colts aren't great, but they're pretty good. They had convincing wins over Tennessee and Green Bay this year. I think they're a little better than you're giving them credit for.

If Reich coached this Pats team you would be talking about them being in the Lawrence hunt. The fact that Bill got them to compete against the Cardinals, Ravens, Dolphins, and put up decent showings vs the Chiefs and Seahawks says a lot about how good he is 

[RUGmen]

6 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Exactly this. This year proved the “Brady is a system QB who won because of his coach and that Bill could plug anybody in there and win” was just nonsense talk from people who hated that Brady had accomplished more than whoever their preferred QB was

And if Bill goes out and signs say, Garropolo or Stafford and makes the playoffs, the haters will come back. 
 

Which is stupid. Coaches make the playoffs with average QBs all the time. Nagy went 12-4 with Trubisky, Zimmer took Keemun to the NFC title game, Reid with Smith, etc.

[DannyB]

29 minutes ago, lancerman said:

I don’t know how you blame Josh when he has 

-a washed up QB who can barely throw 

-a 4th round nobody behind the washed QB

-no TE’s to speak of 

-a WR Corp with a 1st bust, Edelman injured and out all year, and two role players who would be at best 3rd and 4th options on another team 

-an inconsistent offensive line where the best player is habitually out of the lineup.

I actually think Josh McDaniels has acquitted himself rather nicely this season. He might come out of this thing looking less bad than the players and BB. He has almost no control over the personnel, and has had to do the best with the absolute crap given to him.

And I say this as someone who thinks McDaniels is a good/decent-not-great OC, and really wouldn't want him as a head coach.

[rich homie]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

I don’t know how you blame Josh when he has 

-a washed up QB who can barely throw 

-a 4th round nobody behind the washed QB

-no TE’s to speak of 

-a WR Corp with a 1st bust, Edelman injured and out all year, and two role players who would be at best 3rd and 4th options on another team 

-an inconsistent offensive line where the best player is habitually out of the lineup.

I don't know how you can look at the fact that nearly every single aspect of the offense is doing awfully and then come to the conclusion that the offensive coordinator is doing a bangup job, especially when the offense looked almost just as bad last year even with Brady.

[Awsi Dooger]

7 hours ago, Aztec Hammer said:

But it's not even about Brady vs Bill really. My issue is more with those who just can't acknowledge the obvious. That the Player is always more important than the Coach, or more specifically, that the Quarterback is always more important than the Coach. And that Tom Brady is the Greatest QB to ever play. But there will always be a new caveat brought up when it comes to Tom Brady. The Buccaneers were awful and couldn't make the playoffs for a longer time than everyone not named the Browns. All of a sudden, of course they are in the Playoffs and it's not impressive at all apparently because it should be a given.

Perfect summary. Subjectivity is cherished when so often it should be thrown away entirely. My argument on Dolphin sites was always that it had to be mostly Brady. Big picture over subjectivity. If you throw away the names and someone tells you there is a 19-year dynastic run with one coach and one quarterback, while providing all the details like winning percentage, division titles, and Super Bowl wins, then there is only one logical conclusion:

It had to be the quarterback. Basically nonsensical to argue the other way. If so you are throwing away every bit of common sense in favor of what you thought you saw and therefore the biases it created.

On Dolphin sites obviously it was an emotional topic with very little sound reasoning because posters there are forever invested in asserting Dan Marino as the greatest of all time. I guess he threw a pretty pass. That clinches it. 

Tom Brady made the Patriots nearly immune from low scoring defeats. I have provided those stats recently. Belichick loses while allowing 27 or fewer points in nearly half of his games without Brady, while it happened in less than 1 in 8 games with Brady. This year Tampa Bay similarly has lost only 3 times while allowing 27 or fewer. Interestingly, two of those were exactly 27, the 27-24 defeats to Kansas City and the Rams. The Falcons game was a perfect example of how that type of thing plays out. The Buccaneer defense stiffened enough to halt Atlanta's scoring spree and hold them to exactly 27. That enabled Tom Brady to gradually get going and overcome the 27. Belichick right now does not have a quarterback who can overcome that 27. 

Most revealing of all was that Belichick recently drafted Stidham and then signs Cam Newton. That demonstrates he doesn't grasp the vital requirements at quarterback in this era, as opposed to simply stumbling upon Tom Brady 20 years ago. Stidham and Newton have the monotonous line drive fastball tendencies instead of ability to wonderfully vary pace and loft to completely change the evolving nature of the play, exploding the permutations toward success.

We'll see where Belichick goes from here. He'll never lose his reputation but I'm glad this separation occurred. It cured the ignorance that Brady was merely a system quarterback. That garbage is even more ignorant in regard to Joe Montana. I'm one of the few here who remember Joe Montana from Notre Dame. The extreme instincts and special qualities were glaring as early as his sophomore year. Montana was a whispered national legend while still a collegiate backup. 

[Nzd07]

2 hours ago, lancerman said:

If Reich coached this Pats team you would be talking about them being in the Lawrence hunt. The fact that Bill got them to compete against the Cardinals, Ravens, Dolphins, and put up decent showings vs the Chiefs and Seahawks says a lot about how good he is 

Not talking about BB, that defense would be tops in the NFL with him. Talking about McDaniels

[BayRaider]

We all know Rodgers is having a historic season, but Watson and Brady are being so slept on it’s unbelievable. Watson is being slept on because of his record but he’s putting one of the better QB seasons we have seen in modern history. Same with Brady. All of us knew Bradys arm was just fine, he’s having one of the best seasons of his entire career with his arm looking very sharp, including crisp and lasers on deep balls. 
 

Watson is firmly my 4th best QB in the league and Brady is 5th. Who you gonna put over Brady? Allen? Give me another year, he’s 6-8. Lamar? No. Tannehil? No. 
 

Brady is a Top 5 QB in the NFL. Still. Not just Top 5 QB season, but he’s still a Top 5 QB in general. And many people on the forum owe him an “I was wrong”. 
 

And Rodgers has also proven he is still a Top 2-3 QB in the NFL as well. Rodgers is putting on a season for the ages, second best of his career, and looks like he’s 28 out there again. 
 

Props to both men. 
 

(Gonna post this in both the Brady and MVP thread as it’s relevant to both Rodgers and Brady). 

[lancerman]

6 hours ago, rich homie said:

I don't know how you can look at the fact that nearly every single aspect of the offense is doing awfully and then come to the conclusion that the offensive coordinator is doing a bangup job, especially when the offense looked almost just as bad last year even with Brady.

Because talent matters and McDaniels is working with the worst QB room and worst pass catching Corp in the league. The only good thing we have is a run game, it’s one of the most productive in the NFL and we don’t even have any pro bowl or feature backs. Which OC is going to do better? 
 

Is it Josh’s fault that half the receivers can’t beat the second or third best DB on a team and the few times they do the QB throws the ball at their feet? 

[childofpudding]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Brady is a Top 5 QB in the NFL. Still. Not just Top 5 QB season, but he’s still a Top 5 QB in general. And many people on the forum owe him an “I was wrong”. 

Yeah, he's in that 2nd tier, behind Mahomes and Rodgers and alongside QBs like Allen and Watson. He's 4th in DYAR and DVOA as well.

While KC vs. GB is the most likely SB matchup, I wouldn't be that surprised to see BUF vs. TB.

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

14 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Reich has 1 whole playoff win over BOB. Lets give him some time before crowning his butt.

His current QBs are a mess in Brissett and a 39 year old complete loser with a chance to get swept by Jacksonville.

His 2020 team is only on life support because of a pair of miracle end of game turnovers vs the 4-11 Texans.

Coach Reich's claim to fame is being part of 2 SB champs. How many rings does McDaniels have?

 

BTW, I love Reich for what he did in Philly, but I need to see much more in Indy.

 

It is interesting though that McDaniels has had zero success outside of having Tom Brady. He flamed out in Denver as head coach, was terrible in St. Louis as the OC, and now that Brady is gone in New England, the offense is pedestrian. Has he ever had an offense without Brady as the triggerman that hasn't been terrible? 

Edited December 30, 2020 by TecmoSuperJoe

[notthatbluestuff]

Serious question: if you give this 2020 Patriots roster to another current coach, any coach... are we talking about Lawrence to New England right now?

[Saint_James]

19 hours ago, lancerman said:

Exactly this. This year proved the “Brady is a system QB who won because of his coach and that Bill could plug anybody in there and win” was just nonsense talk from people who hated that Brady had accomplished more than whoever their preferred QB was

That's a really interesting take considering his new system probably has the most stacked roster on offense, and a solid defense, that's maybe ever been assembled for a quarterback.  And if that already wasn't good enough, he personally lobbied to have ANOTHER future HOF receiver brought over in Antonio Brown.

Serious question, can anyone else even name a team that's been more loaded than this one on offense?  I'm struggling to even recall a team that's had this level of talent at every skill position.  Maybe the "Greatest Show on Turf" Kurt Warner year?  Even that's debatable compared to this years Tampa Bay squad. 

So no, I'm sorry, but I do not agree that beating up on the Detroit Lions with a virtual NFL All Star team "proves" much of anything about Tom Brady.

[rich homie]

11 hours ago, lancerman said:

Because talent matters and McDaniels is working with the worst QB room and worst pass catching Corp in the league. The only good thing we have is a run game, it’s one of the most productive in the NFL and we don’t even have any pro bowl or feature backs. Which OC is going to do better? 
 

Is it Josh’s fault that half the receivers can’t beat the second or third best DB on a team and the few times they do the QB throws the ball at their feet? 

Yes it is. It's literally his only job as an offensive coordinator to scheme around those issues. You absolutely can't have a QB averaging only 100 yards per game (which Cam has over the past 5 games). That's not even Curtis Painter numbers. No QB or receivers in the NFL are that bad.