Week 11: WFT vs The Bengals

[naptownskinsfan]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

We’re looking at the floor IMO of the talent level of our top players. Nobody in our CORE is even on a second contract. We’re talking about guys who are just starting to flash for this staff. How are we Reed Doughty when Chase and Montez could explode at any second. Jon Allen could blow up. Payne is always doing work. Kamren Curl just keeps showing up. We’re talking about this team like we are the same ole FA core and aging veteran team. This is just the beginning

trust me I don’t think we’re a juggernaut. I think we’re up and coming with players in some of the key spots who you can win with while missing players in a few spots you have to have with those guys to have a legit chance to win with. But for the first time these pieces we do have are all recent and home drafted prospects. That’s the ultimate key to getting there so we have to keep trusting the drafting process. I also think if there’s a offseason we spend some money it’s this one.

Of the players you listed, four of them are at one position.  I'm not even sure about Jon Allen at this point.  He has not lived up to his lofty potential.  It's also hard to evaluate those guys if you look at just numbers, because as we saw today, without good LB and S coverage, it is easy to avoid a good pass-rush.  

We have A LOT of holes.  WR behind McLauren isn't great.  We have a very burgundy and gold tint at looking at that receiver corps.  The OL may have some serious changes, and we know it needs an infusion of talent- probably both in FA and in the draft, and those positions will take a big contract or a premium Day 1-2 pick to properly address.  The TE and LB groups may be the worse groups in the league.  Our corners may be good to go if we can re-sign Darby, but we clearly overpaid for Landon Collins and need a new solution at free safety.  

I said I expected a poor showing this year, and didn't think we would get to .500 next year.  I was criticized quite a bit for thinking that way.  But I am fully expecting that to come true, especially if we end up picking 18-19.  I am not impressed with the way the Rivera regime has started.  

[turtle28]

14 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I only mentioned age on QBs.  But look at guys like Peyton Barber, Dontrelle Inman, KPL, Jon Bostic, Thomas Davis........these guys are who we know them to be.  There is nothing more we are going to get out of them.  Most don't even have the history of early success that led us to sign Ronald Darby (save for Thomas Davis, and I can't count him because he's pushing 40.)  That guys like this are getting meaningful snaps on this team, right now at this point in the season, has no excuse.  Even if we are trying to win.........Bostic is bottom of the barrel.  Our guys on the bench behind him can't do worse.  Barber is just taking snaps away from Gibson.  

Isn’t this @ripsean21’s point? We don’t have many players of significance who are near 30. 
 

Everyone agreed with the bolded.

[naptownskinsfan]

Just now, turtle28 said:

Isn’t this @ripsean21’s point? We don’t have many players of significance who are near 30. 
 

Everyone agreed with the bolded.

No NFL team is older than 26.9 years old combined.  The average career length is 3.3 years.  But if you aren't trying to develop young guys because JAGs are playing in front of them, you don't know what you have.  That's my problem.  In this misguided attempt to win a division, we aren't properly developing our roster and giving guys a chance.  Multiple posters were asking where SDH was today, while we were watching Bostic and Davis struggle in coverage.  Why the hell are those two still getting meaningful snaps?  Why is Peyton Barber taking carries away from Gibson?  

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Of the players you listed, four of them are at one position.  I'm not even sure about Jon Allen at this point.  He has not lived up to his lofty potential.  It's also hard to evaluate those guys if you look at just numbers, because as we saw today, without good LB and S coverage, it is easy to avoid a good pass-rush.  

We have A LOT of holes.  WR behind McLauren isn't great.  We have a very burgundy and gold tint at looking at that receiver corps.  The OL may have some serious changes, and we know it needs an infusion of talent- probably both in FA and in the draft, and those positions will take a big contract or a premium Day 1-2 pick to properly address.  The TE and LB groups may be the worse groups in the league.  Our corners may be good to go if we can re-sign Darby, but we clearly overpaid for Landon Collins and need a new solution at free safety.  

I said I expected a poor showing this year, and didn't think we would get to .500 next year.  I was criticized quite a bit for thinking that way.  But I am fully expecting that to come true, especially if we end up picking 18-19.  I am not impressed with the way the Rivera regime has started.  

I don’t think @ripsean21 is saying we have definite answers. I think he’s saying we are young, developing, will add more young players in FA and the draft next off-season and our best days are probably in the future. He clearly said in one post he thinks this is the floor for this team under Rivera. It’s hard to not agree w/ that thought looking forward.

We certainly need an answer at LT - which may be Moses given how he’s played there the last 6 quarters - then, Christian & Lucas can battle it out for RT. 
 

I agree that our starting LB corps needs a major upgrade and I definitely expect Rivera/DelRio to do that given they’re both LBs.

I definitely think we’ll get an upgrade at FS or at the least draft a FS to compete w/ Everrett who’s proven to be a serviceable FS for us which I’ve thought he could be for 5 year and it upsets me that Gruden/Manusky continued to stick Nicholson out there instead of Everrett just points to incompetence of what’s most important at the FS position, tackling and not giving up big plays and not blowing coverages.

Agreed about the TE position - worst in the league - we could definitely use an upgrade at WR which I expect us to get one in FA and the draft.

[turtle28]

59 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

No NFL team is older than 26.9 years old combined.  The average career length is 3.3 years.  But if you aren't trying to develop young guys because JAGs are playing in front of them, you don't know what you have.  That's my problem.  In this misguided attempt to win a division, we aren't properly developing our roster and giving guys a chance.  Multiple posters were asking where SDH was today, while we were watching Bostic and Davis struggle in coverage.  Why the hell are those two still getting meaningful snaps?  Why is Peyton Barber taking carries away from Gibson?  

Well I agree with that but I think it’s both. 
 

I definitely agree we’re playing a few JAGs at LB and should doing what we’re doing at WR with our LBs and play SDH at MLB an Hudson at WLB. All in all though, you’re/we’re talking about 2 positions.

Seems kinda like nitpicking... just saying, it’s 2 positions out of 22.

Barber only took snaps away from Gibson to help run out the clock and in the red zone for a few carries. As I’ve pointed out to you or someone else, Barber plays like 10 snaps a game! It’s not as big a deal as you’re making it out to be and Barber is taking some tough carries in between the tackles in the 4th quarter which means Gibson isn’t taking that beating on his shoulder which isn’t 100%, in that way, that’s a good thing.

Then, we do have a lot of young players developing all over besides 2 spots at LB. I understand not being happy about that, what I don’t understand is beating a dead horse and not acknowledging all the other spots on the team where young players are playing and playing at worst average - some showing flashes or playing well - and developing as @ripsean21 is pointing out.

Edited November 23, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

I mean heck, even Sharpe wasn’t a train wreck today at RT like I was worried he’d be. That too seems like a positive for our young players and the development this coaching staff is doing with them.

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

The WFT has 3 wins. Dallas has been playing better, I don’t expect us to beat them. I don’t expect us to beat Phila for a second time.

I see no possible outcome where this team wins 4 more games and isn’t picking in the top 10 - unless they win the division at 6-10 - where they could grab Sewell,  Chase, Wilson, Parsons or DeVonta Smith. 
 

At best we end up with 6 wins and even then we’re probably picking in the 8-10 range unless we win the division at 6-10. 

I don't want to drop 10-12 spots because we ended up King of the Turds this year and are rewarded with a home game with zero fans in attendance as we get blown out by a true playoff team.

[offbyone]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Oh, well being the worst team to ever make a post season isn’t really something that’s good for our future either. We aren’t going anywhere in the playoffs. By winning the division we are likely going to lose 10-13 spots in draft position for one more game in the season which will almost assuredly be a blow out bc one of the NFC West teams; the Cardinals, Rams or Seachickens.

That’s what people who don’t want to win with an awful team are weighing.

It's good for the future of me being a fan of this team.  I think it is highly unlikely, but really who cares if we are the worst team to make the post season.  Rooting for my team in a playoff game would be great.

[offbyone]

In terms of the Gibson/Barber discussion, running the clock out at the end of the game doesn't add anything and I could careless about his stats.  Plus why beat on him for no reason.  Now if we could give him more snaps to help him develop, I am all for it.  But the snaps he needs don't go with running out the clock.  Gibson needs extra snaps in passing situations to practice how to block.  

[turtle28]

Dallas beat the Vikings in the last minutes! 

[turtle28]

25 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I don't want to drop 10-12 spots because we ended up King of the Turds this year and are rewarded with a home game with zero fans in attendance as we get blown out by a true playoff team.

I don’t want it either, but in the end, that’s out of our control. Players are going to play as hard as they can to win and especially to keep their jobs on this team or get signed on another team next year.

Good news is Dallas won and looked good vs the Vikings today. I think it’s unlikely we beat them on Thursday so that’s 3-8.

Edited November 23, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

14 minutes ago, offbyone said:

It's good for the future of me being a fan of this team.  I think it is highly unlikely, but really who cares if we are the worst team to make the post season.  Rooting for my team in a playoff game would be great.

No offense but you’re one guy and very few people are going to not be fans of this team if Rivera doesn’t make the playoffs in his first season. Now, if this was year 3 and we didn’t make the playoffs that’d be different.

[offbyone]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

No offense but you’re one guy and very few people are going to not be fans of this team if Rivera doesn’t make the playoffs in his first season. Now, if this was year 3 and we didn’t make the playoffs that’d be different.

Huh?  I'm not going to quit on the team if he doesn't make playoffs.  All I am saying is I would very much enjoy being involved in the postseason, no matter if we got there at 6-10 or 16-0.  The entire purpose of being a fan is hoping they are playing meaningful games in december and beyond.  Until we don't control our own destiny I am hoping for that.

Honestly, I don't know why everyone is so caught up in the draft pick positioning this year.  Lawrence is the only draft pick who is close to a sure thing to changing our franchise and we lost that option many weeks ago.  

 

[Thaiphoon]

9 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t want it either, but in the end, that’s out of our control. Players are going to play as hard as they can to win and especially to keep their jobs on this team or get signed on another team next year.

Good news is Dallas won and looked good vs the Vikings today. I think it’s unlikely we beat them on Thursday so that’s 3-8.

Which is what I want, man. I don't want the players taking a knee. I want them to try hard, and develop. But just miss out and lose close games. This way, you have players buying in, and we still get more options in next year's draft.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Why is Peyton Barber taking carries away from Gibson?  

This one I don't understand.

You could make an argument that Bostic knows the plays better, or looks better prepared than SDH, hence they are giving him the snaps.

But Gibson? He looks electric when he's on the field. Barber looks like a plodder. And it isn't like Gibson has show an inability to go up the middle.