The Carr dilemma in 2021

[MrOaktown_56]

45 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

 

If you're gonna question and criticize someone's post, research some real sports knowledge and not strictly your own opinion. 

We're all familiar with the physical part of football but as physical as it is, there is also huge mental side of it which is Sports Psychology.

There's a HUGE difference between Playoff and Regular season games. Every player will say that, there's no argument around that. 

 

Every team tries every game but there are certain games throughout the season in every sport where a team will have more or lesser motivation depending on the schedule. You'll hear phrases like  "team A has this game circled on their schedule".  There's also spots in the schedule called Look ahead games, letdown games, revenge games etc.

Here's an example from our season which we got caught in a "letdown" game

The 2nd matchup vs the Chiefs on Primetime football was the biggest game of the year at that point for us. The team has its best effort and lost the game in heartbreaking fashion 35-31. 

The Following week vs Atlanta was considered a letdown game.  Where as a team, we couldn't get up to play the Falcons like we did vs the KC the week before. Our team came out flat and got destroyed. I bet against us because I knew historically teams in our position don't respond well after rivals games like that.

This is sports psychology 101. This is the same realm as the difference between playoff intensity with all the marbles on the line vs a regular season game against the Falcons

You're being contradictory. If the Chiefs had a bye week and circled us on the schedule for the 2nd matchup, which they did, why did they struggle again with us?

That throws serious doubt on the "effort"/gameplanning argument that would have been fairer if we had gotten blown out after the first game.

And don't come at me with doing "real research".

The irony of you talking about sports psychology when I'm a physician in training. Let me give you a hint. You're way out of your depth here.

And before you ask, I've worked with football players and athletes extensively. I have a pretty good idea of how they think. I've never heard an athlete tell me that they approach regular season or playoffs differently. The effort and mental preparation is the same. Especially when guys are playing for a paycheck.

It's different with coaching and gameplan adjustments, but I already addressed the fact that the Chiefs and Andy Reid/Spags had a bye week to prepare for us and we still played them extremely tough.

[BackinBlack]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/26/mike-mayock-derek-carr-had-an-exceptional-2020-season/

hesitant to post, because I know everyone who wants Carr gone, will just say this is a bluff to maximize his trade value.. . 

but as weve seen the last couple years, unless, something crazy happens, Mayock and Gruden are happy with Carr. 
 

[MrOaktown_56]

3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/26/mike-mayock-derek-carr-had-an-exceptional-2020-season/

hesitant to post, because I know everyone who wants Carr gone, will just say this is a bluff to maximize his trade value.. . 

but as weve seen the last couple years, unless, something crazy happens, Mayock and Gruden are happy with Carr. 
 

I mean I'm open to keeping or dealing Carr. I just want the team to win. I actually voted not to extend him to evaluate him next year before extending or cutting/trading him.

But some of the scattershot plans to get rid of him that I've seen are not a recipe for success, or establishing a winning team/culture.

 

[Geezy]

59 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

A lot of the criticism is because of the circumstances around the INT.  Tipped balls or giving you WR a chance is not treated the same as when the defense is getting stops and he keeps turning it over or throws one in the end-zone.  Carr has received more criticism for fumbles than his picks.  Even most people who criticize Carr say he has improved just not enough for us to be happy about it.  Also winning in the playoffs makes a big difference.

Im saying if your defense can get stops you can afford to take more chances, and even throw some picks that wont completely kill you. Thats what a lot of guys on here refuse to understand. When people mention the defense, its treated as an excuse. If Carr had a stat line likes Bradys with this defense wed have zero chance of winning vs ANYBODY, let alone the Packers. We want to see an NFL caliber defense that can help the offense win. Field position, turnovers, time of possesion etc, stats that equate to W's. 

Instead of talking about the real issue, guys are in here making garbage claims to paint DC as the issue. 

I read an article today that said Johnathan Abram had more TFLs than Hurst, Hankins and Collins COMBINED. He had THREE!!! But we need a new QB.

[drfrey13]

2 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/26/mike-mayock-derek-carr-had-an-exceptional-2020-season/

hesitant to post, because I know everyone who wants Carr gone, will just say this is a bluff to maximize his trade value.. . 

but as weve seen the last couple years, unless, something crazy happens, Mayock and Gruden are happy with Carr. 
 

Mayock and Gruden may be satisfied with how Carr played and happy about his improvement but not many supporters would say he had an exceptional year.  He is being supportive.  Carr was a major reason for us winning 8 games but he was also a major reason why we lost a few also.  I would say he had an above average year at best.  I do not think they are trying to build up his trade value either.

[BackinBlack]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I mean I'm open to keeping or dealing Carr. I just want the team to win. I actually voted not to extend him to evaluate him next year before extending or cutting/trading him.

But some of the scattershot plans to get rid of him that I've seen are not a recipe for success, or establishing a winning team/culture.

 

100%.
I think if Watson could be had for Carr and 2 firsts, I pull trigger. . . If ARod forces himself out of GB great. . . 
but those are massive IFs, bigger than Leonard becoming a FA. 

I also think we should be spending mid round picks in the draft to bring in young QBs, way cheaper then Mariota and maybe you find a Gem. 

As Mayock said, you need to always be looking for how can you improve. If they are confident they can improve from Carr they will. But thankfully they realize it is not as easy as some here make it seem. 

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Mayock and Gruden may be satisfied with how Carr played and happy about his improvement but not many supporters would say he had an exceptional year.  He is being supportive.  Carr was a major reason for us winning 8 games but he was also a major reason why we lost a few also.  I would say he had an above average year at best.  I do not think they are trying to build up his trade value either.

I wouldn't call it exceptional. There were exceptional moments. I'd say it was good and an improvement.

[BackinBlack]

2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Mayock and Gruden may be satisfied with how Carr played and happy about his improvement but not many supporters would say he had an exceptional year.  He is being supportive.  Carr was a major reason for us winning 8 games but he was also a major reason why we lost a few also.  I would say he had an above average year at best.  I do not think they are trying to build up his trade value either.

yea i agree with this. 
I think for us to win it took, for the most part, Carr playing well. (most teams around the league, need at least solid QB play to win games).
When Carr had rough games / halfs / quarters. . . games turned ugly fast. 
Sure he is responsible for his bad fumble or pick, but, this Raider team has let momentum against them snowball for a long time. As soon as something goes off script, it almost feels like game is over. 

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, Geezy said:

Im saying if your defense can get stops you can afford to take more chances, and even throw some picks that wont completely kill you. Thats what a lot of guys on here refuse to understand. When people mention the defense, its treated as an excuse. If Carr had a stat line likes Bradys with this defense wed have zero chance of winning vs ANYBODY, let alone the Packers. We want to see an NFL caliber defense that can help the offense win. Field position, turnovers, time of possesion etc, stats that equate to W's. 

Instead of talking about the real issue, guys are in here making garbage claims to paint DC as the issue. 

I read an article today that said Johnathan Abram had more TFLs than Hurst, Hankins and Collins COMBINED. He had THREE!!! But we need a new QB.

I have stated before that there are ten things I would want to address in the off-season and Carr is not on that list.  I would not be against trading him for the right price also.  The defense is easily the weak link but Gruden has set the team up to be that way.  Gruden and Guenther are the main reasons why the defense is so bad.  The offense is suppose to carry us.  Carr has been given so much on the offensive side of the ball.  Injuries are not his fault but the team has tried to give him everything.  With that being said I have seen a few games, not enough clearly, were the defense has come out firing and the O lets them down.  I also do not think the defense gets enough credit for games like the first Chiefs game.  They had  24 points at the half and then held them until the garbage time TD that they gave them to run down the clock.  First key piece was getting rid of Guenther.  Now lets see if they can figure out how to get some talent on the defensive side of the ball.  If we focus on offense this entire board needs to call for Gruden to be fired.

[Bitty 2.0]

53 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Im saying if your defense can get stops you can afford to take more chances, and even throw some picks that wont completely kill you. Thats what a lot of guys on here refuse to understand. When people mention the defense, its treated as an excuse. If Carr had a stat line likes Bradys with this defense wed have zero chance of winning vs ANYBODY, let alone the Packers. We want to see an NFL caliber defense that can help the offense win. Field position, turnovers, time of possesion etc, stats that equate to W's. 

Instead of talking about the real issue, guys are in here making garbage claims to paint DC as the issue. 

I read an article today that said Johnathan Abram had more TFLs than Hurst, Hankins and Collins COMBINED. He had THREE!!! But we need a new QB.

In the last 7 games the Raider defense lost 3 games by letting the other teams score in the last 2 minutes.

That was a put us in the playoffs

[Bitty 2.0]

1 minute ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Bitty 2.0

[BackinBlack]

20 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

In the last 7 games the Raider defense lost 3 games by letting the other teams score in the last 2 minutes.

That was a put us in the playoffs

As much as I hate our D. . . 
Giving a team the ball back with 2 mins left in a one score game, is going to lead to loses in the NFL today. 
Id rather be down 3 with the ball, then up 3 without the ball, with 2 mins left. 

Our D def needs serious overhaul in talent, but Id imagine (could be wrong here), the team with the ball last with at least 1min on clock, wins most close games. 

[drfrey13]

35 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

In the last 7 games the Raider defense lost 3 games by letting the other teams score in the last 2 minutes.

That was a put us in the playoffs

I could also say that the offense needs to learn how to take more time off the clock when you are driving for the winning score.  Carr and our coaches have horrible clock management in those situations.  Carr did the same thing multiple times in 2016 and Mack always bailed him out.  You could also say that maybe the team should score TDs at the end of games because we know the defense is the weak link.  Miami was a terrible situation and I would not expect to see that for a while.  

We have invested so must to be a dominate power run team but we can run a 4 minute drill.  Drives me nuts.

Edited January 27, 2021 by drfrey13

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

You're being contradictory. If the Chiefs had a bye week and circled us on the schedule for the 2nd matchup, which they did, why did they struggle again with us?

That throws serious doubt on the "effort"/gameplanning argument that would have been fairer if we had gotten blown out after the first game.

And don't come at me with doing "real research".

The irony of you talking about sports psychology when I'm a physician in training. Let me give you a hint. You're way out of your depth here.

And before you ask, I've worked with football players and athletes extensively. I have a pretty good idea of how they think. I've never heard an athlete tell me that they approach regular season or playoffs differently. The effort and mental preparation is the same. Especially when guys are playing for a paycheck.

It's different with coaching and gameplan adjustments, but I already addressed the fact that the Chiefs and Andy Reid/Spags had a bye week to prepare for us and we still played them extremely tough.

Seriously? Even kelse bragged about how it was our Super Bowl not theirs. 
 

we played them tough exactly. it’s like playing vs your lil brother in the back yard. The lil bro will treat it like the game of all games. While the big brother does just enough not to lose.

[NCOUGHMAN]

7 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

I don't understand this statement if you have a HOF TE you get him the ball KC does it and they're doing just fine.

Kc also gives Tyreek 100+ targets per year