big_palooka Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: So now he's a good player. What is good enough? Elite? I do want the Raiders to win. What kind of weird deflection is that? This is a team game. I'm not even a stats guy. He can't carry Gruden's ineptitude in December. If you want to argue that Gruden will never improve so we need an elite QB to shore up his inadequacies, I can understand that argument. But at that point, you're dooming us to perpetual mediocrity, even with Watson and whatever ungodly trade capital we give up to get him. I think Gruden needs a QB who can create off schedule and extend plays to maximize his offense, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 16 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Those stats show you Carr is a good player but he isn't good enough and we can get better at the QB position. Why not? Do you want the Raiders to win? Do you really think top 5 QBs grow on trees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 37 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: Do you really think top 5 QBs grow on trees? No but the two teams playing right now drafted Elite QBs after Carr signed his extension in 2016. Gotta take chances in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 22 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: No but the two teams playing right now drafted Elite QBs after Carr signed his extension in 2016. Gotta take chances in the NFL. 99% of all QBs drafted won't be as good as Carr so good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 We need to close the gap with kc. The qb we have under contract showed this year that he can play against Kansas City, something Allen has not shown so far. Neither has Herbert if we’re being honest (I don’t count a garbage time game with backups). These “generational” qb’s have struggled against Kansas City. The ultimate AFC rival. Granted, it may be a fluke. I’m not a homer and I can admit that 2 games is a small sample size. But would you rather see that DC’s success against KC this year is something can be sustained, rather than try to pull the trigger on a new qb in the off-season? Especially when we have no shot at a Burrow or Lawrence. It seems rational to me. But again, to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: We need to close the gap with kc. The qb we have under contract showed this year that he can play against Kansas City, something Allen has not shown so far. Neither has Herbert if we’re being honest (I don’t count a garbage time game with backups). These “generational” qb’s have struggled against Kansas City. The ultimate AFC rival. Teddy Bridgewater went into KC and threw for 300+, 73%, 3 total TDs, and had the 4 win panthers within a last second FG miss of winning that game. Nobody thinks he's special for doing that. Not going to use a one game sample to definitely say who can and can't play vs KC. We've seen the Chiefs play multiple close games this year. Truth is, they get up for certain teams and QBs. They've been terrorizing us and Carr for years and we more than likely caught them off guard. Quote Granted, it may be a fluke. I’m not a homer and I can admit that 2 games is a small sample size. Derek Carr at Arrowhead vs chiefs prior to 2020...Aka the year we didn't have to play there in December in cold weather. Aka the year without fans. 2014: 27/56 for 222 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT 2015: 21/33 for 194 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 2016: 17/41 for 117 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT 2017: 24/41 for 211 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT 2018: 24/33 for 185 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT 2019: 12/21 for 152 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT Edited January 25, 2021 by SilverNBlackFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 43 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Teddy Bridgewater went into KC and threw for 300+, 73%, 3 total TDs, and had the 4 win panthers within a last second FG miss of winning that game. Nobody thinks he's special for doing that. Not going to use a one game sample to definitely say who can and can't play vs KC. We've seen the Chiefs play multiple close games this year. Truth is, they get up for certain teams and QBs. They've been terrorizing us and Carr for years and we more than likely caught them off guard. Derek Carr at Arrowhead vs chiefs prior to 2020...Aka the year we didn't have to play there in December in cold weather. Aka the year without fans. 2014: 27/56 for 222 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT 2015: 21/33 for 194 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 2016: 17/41 for 117 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT 2017: 24/41 for 211 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT 2018: 24/33 for 185 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT 2019: 12/21 for 152 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT You think we caught them off guard twice? I agree they’ve had his number, but I think our vertical pass game gave them a lot of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: You think we caught them off guard twice? I agree they’ve had his number, but I think our vertical pass game gave them a lot of trouble. Didn't the Raiders score 71 points in there 2 games against KC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: So now he's a good player. What is good enough? Elite? I do want the Raiders to win. What kind of weird deflection is that? This is a team game. I'm not even a stats guy. He can't carry Gruden's ineptitude in December. If you want to argue that Gruden will never improve so we need an elite QB to shore up his inadequacies, I can understand that argument. But at that point, you're dooming us to perpetual mediocrity, even with Watson and whatever ungodly trade capital we give up to get him. So carr gets props for the good (plays/ wins) but gruden gets the blame for the bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Derek Carr and the LV Raiders may be the only QB/team this season to beat KC, and there are fans on this site that want to move on from him. DC did it with the 29th ranked defense. Bills couldn't do it. Browns couldn't do it. Ravens couldn't do it and neither could the Saints. DC did it though. Put up 40 on them. We need a defense, not a QB change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 14 hours ago, bucksavage1 said: No but the two teams playing right now drafted Elite QBs after Carr signed his extension in 2016. Gotta take chances in the NFL. Josh Allen just had his @$$ handed to him in the AFC Championship game. The Bills put up 17 and another TD in garbage time with the game clearly over. You're banging the table for a guy that put up 24 on them with an offense that ranked better than the Raiders this season. At least DC was swinging back. Allen got worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 15 hours ago, big_palooka said: I think Gruden needs a QB who can create off schedule and extend plays to maximize his offense, yes. That shouldn't have to happen regularly though. I understand a QB scrambling for a first down or maybe directing traffic here and there, but when it happens consistently, the results aren't always great. QB gets injured, turnovers happen, fumbles. Gruden tries to run an offense that always results in positive yardage. He wants the play to be executed properly and for it to be the right play to succeed against the defense on the other side of the ball. I think DC played great this season. The only knock on him that I've heard all off season is his fumbles. I would still consider his overall year to be a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Jerry said: Josh Allen just had his @$$ handed to him in the AFC Championship game. The Bills put up 17 and another TD in garbage time with the game clearly over. You're banging the table for a guy that put up 24 on them with an offense that ranked better than the Raiders this season. At least DC was swinging back. Allen got worked. You think playoff games are = reg season games Lolol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 41 minutes ago, Jerry said: That shouldn't have to happen regularly though. I understand a QB scrambling for a first down or maybe directing traffic here and there, but when it happens consistently, the results aren't always great. QB gets injured, turnovers happen, fumbles. Gruden tries to run an offense that always results in positive yardage. He wants the play to be executed properly and for it to be the right play to succeed against the defense on the other side of the ball. I think DC played great this season. The only knock on him that I've heard all off season is his fumbles. I would still consider his overall year to be a success. Dc’s moderate improvement is imo because of gruden and his play book. Gruden made carr grow a pair and is the only reason why this thread has a fighting chance in favor of carr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 16 hours ago, big_palooka said: I think Gruden needs a QB who can create off schedule and extend plays to maximize his offense, yes. That's absolutely the opposite of what Jon Gruden wants. That you can't understand Garden runs a system and he wants to run it the way it is design is amazing to me. He literally says it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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