The Carr dilemma in 2021

[Jerry]

Just now, Jerry said:

I agree with your assessment of Tannehill.  As for Allen, I also agree that he only has one fantastic year and it came with S. Diggs at WR.  I'm just saying that if I had to choose 5 QBs to replace him, those two would be the best of the bunch behind the 3 you listed.

Also, of the 60+ QBs taken in the first over the last 20 years, if DC were a first round pick, he would definitely be in the top 25% IMO.  Some of the picks were just downright terrible.  Link below for reference.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-every-nfl-quarterback-drafted-first-round-since-2000/16obdsowna7kk1gnhl9iqrp2pg/14

[jimkelly02]

This is to the several people who replied to my support of Carr:

again.... no one in the pro Carr camp would turn down A Good Opportunity to replace Carr.  But year in and year out all we hear from the anti-Carr brigade is “trade 2-3 1st round picks and some Day2/3 picks” for the 3-4th ranked QB in the class.  We’re not the blind idiots you call us.  We just know it’s a massive risk to take and don’t love the prospects that would be available.  We can win with Carr... if we have a sound defense and offensive weapons.  We’d prefer to take the low risk plan of fixing the team surrounding Carr.  You could never convince me Jordan Love or Trey Lance could win more than Carr, especially when we’d have significantly less as to build around him due to the cost of the trade.  Stop looking for a savior... the 3rd or 4th QB in the class isn’t likely to be the next Mahomes or Rodgers.  Only that level of QB could Possible win devoid of talent like Carr has had.  Put Jordy Nelson, Seth Roberts, etc on KC and you think Mahomes is a SB champ?  No way.

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

This is to the several people who replied to my support of Carr:

again.... no one in the pro Carr camp would turn down A Good Opportunity to replace Carr.  But year in and year out all we hear from the anti-Carr brigade is “trade 2-3 1st round picks and some Day2/3 picks” for the 3-4th ranked QB in the class.  We’re not the blind idiots you call us.  We just know it’s a massive risk to take and don’t love the prospects that would be available.  We can win with Carr... if we have a sound defense and offensive weapons.  We’d prefer to take the low risk plan of fixing the team surrounding Carr.  You could never convince me Jordan Love or Trey Lance could win more than Carr, especially when we’d have significantly less as to build around him due to the cost of the trade.  Stop looking for a savior... the 3rd or 4th QB in the class isn’t likely to be the next Mahomes or Rodgers.  Only that level of QB could Possible win devoid of talent like Carr has had.  Put Jordy Nelson, Seth Roberts, etc on KC and you think Mahomes is a SB champ?  No way.

Hey now!  I liked Jordy and Seth Roberts.  When they were with us they were great 3rd/4th WRs.

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

Hey now!  I liked Jordy and Seth Roberts.  When they were with us they were great 3rd/4th WRs.

Oh yeah as slot and backups they were good but they aren’t starters snd they surely aren’t KCs WR unit.

I actually really dislike when as a fan base we turn on guys like Seth Roberts and Erik Harris who are classic underdog stories and give us years or solid production at low pay and as soon as they get a contract that pays them a few million we all hate them.

[jimkelly02]

I don’t understand why the Carr Haters absolutely need a 1st round QB that costs 3+ first round picks.... and don’t forget that first round pick the first year that new QB is starting is likely to be very high, prolly high enough to draft the QB of the future they want.

Why not advocate to draft a QB in rounds 3-4.  Honestly... I don’t see much difference between some QB3’s and QB4’s that would cost 3+ first round picks and the QB.  Look at last year Jacob and Frohm were thought to be late first round QBs late into the draft process and then went in the 4th and 5th.  In ‘19 Will Grier was a late first at the end of the season who slipped to a high 2nd by the time the draft rolled around then went in the 3rd.  Why not spend a few 4th round picks over the next few years trying to find a future QB.  

Were simply Don’t have the ammo to trade from 17/19/etc up to 2/3 and get the second best QB.  That’d cost 3-4 1sts and other picks.... we’d be left devoid of cheap Starters for years (draft picks have 4 years on a cheap contract)!  Now your signing FAs like Nassib and Collins to low end starter pay and hoping they develop to be quality starters just to Fill the starting roles of those 1st rounders.  Teams absolutely need first round picks to fill starting roles at low Costs.

 

[drfrey13]

6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I've posted a list of QB's taken in the 1st over the last 10 years that I would take over Carr and there are 3.  Mahomes, Watson and Luck.  

I would rather risk draft capital in the later rounds and develop a Qb rather than spend a 1st on a QB when the odds are clearly in the favor of that player not being an improvement over Carr.  Not only are the odds in favor of that QB not being as good as Carr but risking a 1st on a QB on a team that has massive holes to fill, at multiple positions, is not smart football or business considering the bust rate for 1st round QB's.

I agree that if we are going to try and upgrade we need to build the team around them first.  Priority #1-10 this year all involve cutting dead weight and improving the defense.  Carr right now is not on that list.

[Jerry]

32 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I agree that if we are going to try and upgrade we need to build the team around them first.  Priority #1-10 this year all involve cutting dead weight and improving the defense.  Carr right now is not on that list.

To do list (no order):

1.  Sign/Draft 3T DT

2.  Sign/Draft FS addition

3.  Cut Trent Brown

4.  Cut T. Williams

5.  Cut L. Joyner

6.  Sign/Draft RT

7.  Draft/Sign CB depth

8.  Resign D. Good

9.  Draft/Sign DE to play opposite Crosby

10.  Resign N. Agholor

Boom.

Edited January 23, 2021 by Jerry

[Frankie2Gunz]

3 hours ago, Jerry said:

To do list (no order):

1.  Sign/Draft 3T DT

2.  Sign/Draft FS addition

3.  Cut Trent Brown

4.  Cut T. Williams

5.  Cut L. Joyner

6.  Sign/Draft RT

7.  Draft/Sign CB depth

8.  Resign D. Good

9.  Draft/Sign DE to play opposite Crosby

10.  Resign N. Agholor

Boom.

I would add a RB to that list.  Booker is average at best, we really need another RB threat to take heat and wear away from Jacobs.  I would not be opposed to taking a flier on a Rb in rounds 4-7.  3rd possibly if we get incredible value as a good back slips. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

All thing’s considered if mariota was healthy and started all season how many games do you think we could have won honestly? 

[Dessie]

6 hours ago, Jerry said:

To do list (no order):

1.  Sign/Draft 3T DT

2.  Sign/Draft FS addition

3.  Cut Trent Brown

4.  Cut T. Williams

5.  Cut L. Joyner

6.  Sign/Draft RT

7.  Draft/Sign CB depth

8.  Resign D. Good

9.  Draft/Sign DE to play opposite Crosby

10.  Resign N. Agholor

Boom.

That’s how I have it although I would say we need a Vet FS to help the young guys. Draft a FS later in the draft. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Dessie

[oakdb36]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

All thing’s considered if mariota was healthy and started all season how many games do you think we could have won honestly? 

5

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

All thing’s considered if mariota was healthy and started all season how many games do you think we could have won honestly? 

You're asking the wrong crowd. It's hilarious how Carr fans give him major passes for his injuries. However, they pay no respect to Mariota who also had a standout season in 2016 and dealt with injuries for the last few seasons.

I think they win 8-9 games with a healthy Mariota because that is what this teams talent level is.

His ability to run RPO with Jacobs adds an element to the run game. I think he scores more in the red zone. And any INTs he throws would compare to the 8 loss fumbles Carr had when touched in the pocket.

I personally think Mariota would run Grudens offense well. He'd miss some passes Carr might make, but that is offset with his ability to play off schedule which Carr doesn't excel.

[big_palooka]

5 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

5

With the offensive talent around the QB... you're winning more than 5 games with Mariota. 

[oakdb36]

22 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

With the offensive talent around the QB... you're winning more than 5 games with Mariota. 

With the slim margin of error the D is allowing the offense, i don't see it.

[Rich7sena]

46 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

You're asking the wrong crowd. It's hilarious how Carr fans give him major passes for his injuries. However, they pay no respect to Mariota who also had a standout season in 2016 and dealt with injuries for the last few seasons.

I think they win 8-9 games with a healthy Mariota because that is what this teams talent level is.

His ability to run RPO with Jacobs adds an element to the run game. I think he scores more in the red zone. And any INTs he throws would compare to the 8 loss fumbles Carr had when touched in the pocket.

I personally think Mariota would run Grudens offense well. He'd miss some passes Carr might make, but that is offset with his ability to play off schedule which Carr doesn't excel.

Mariota is not a good quarterback. Mariota has literally only had one good season. He's a quality backup. Carr routinely elevates the talent level on offense since he's been the starter. He gave career years to Nelson Agholor, Michael Crabtree, and Jared Cook. And lower level players like Seth Roberts and Andre Holmes only ever produced with Carr and went on to be virtually worthless to their next team. Meanwhile, Ryan Tannehill comes in and elevates the team in ways Mariota never could.

You're completely discounting Mariota's own deficiencies. Who's to say he even gets to the redzone as often as Carr does. What evidence do you have that his running would offset the throws he would miss when he has never thrown for over 3,500 yards in a season? Who's to say he'll even stay healthy? The reason you think Mariota would be better isn't because he actually is--it's because he's not Carr.

I do agree that Gruden's offense is best run with a mobile quarterback, Carr is still a better option that Mariota over the course of a season. I am willing to mortgage some of the short term future to go up and get a Zach Wilson. I'm still not sold on Fields or Lance over Carr long term.

Also, I'm tired of the conversations surrounding Carr. He should go win with a franchise ready to win. He deserves that.