Geezy Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: The offense has been a postive. I've more than acknowledged that. Carr is comfortable if not spectacular in the offense now. They have some serious talent. However, the red zone issues and conservative play calling have been consistent. Also... fair or not, you pay a coach 10 year 100 mil the expectations are high. For that money, you could have hired nearly any coach you wanted. Davis choose Gruden and the results have been worse than 3 years with Jack Del Rio. Praise the offensive improvement all you want, but you don't hire a 100 mil coach to have a 25th ranked red zone offense and flop the second half of the season twice. You pay that to be a consistent playoff contender every year. They are a defense away form that currently. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 43 minutes ago, true2form said: Now I'm not generally a positive person by nature, but if you look at Grudens time here in the past 3 years there is a clear progression in this team. Jack Del Rio's 3 seasons: 25-23 (52% win) 2015 - Offense: 333 ypg (17th), 22.4 ppg (17th) | Defense: 363 ypg (22nd), 24.9 ppg (22nd) 2016 - Offense: 373 ypg (6th), 26.0 ppg (7th) | Defense: 375 ypg (26th), 24.1 ppg (20th) 2017 - Offense: 324 ypg (17th), 18.8 ppg (23rd) | Defense: 350 ypg (23rd), 23.3 ppg (20th) Jon Gruden's 3 seasons: 19-29 (39% win) 2018 - Offense: 336 ypg (23rd), 18.1 ppg (28th) | Defense: 381 ypg (26th), 29.2 ppg (32nd) 2019 - Offense: 363 ypg (11th), 19.6 ppg (24th) | Defense: 354 ypg (19th), 26.2 ppg (24th) 2020 - Offense: 383 ypg (8th), 27.1 ppg (10th) | Defense: 389 ypg (25th), 29.8 ppg (30th) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, Geezy said: FIFY A defense that will take 2 seasons to retool. They have issues stopping the run, rushing the passer and in coverage. There are a lot of pieces to fix and it starts with a severe lack of talent. Coaching can take a B- player and turn him into a B+, but won't coaching can't turn them into A players. There are no A players on defense currently. And maybe 1 (Littleton) that can be coached to an A. And I said CONSISTENT playoff contender which will require more from the offense and the defense to jump into the top 15 ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 hours ago, oakdb36 said: The team is young and progressing. The only team to beat the defending champions (with their starters playing) in over a year is the Raiders. They almost did it twice. That doesn't happen by accident. They were much more consistent on offense (except for 1 game at Atlanta) than they've ever been since 2002 (more consistent than 2016). There's room for progression at WRs, be it from the 2020 rookies or some vet addition. The D was awful and the playoffs were still in reach. Neither does falling apart the second half of the season and losing games against an easy schedule. That offense that was hot early and fell off. Far from consistent... they had issues scoring. Still played conservative trying "not to lose" games which has been a consistent problem for Gruden over the years. I believe Ruggs/Edwards will progress and the offense will continue to grow. But I'm not buying Carr as a Superbowl caliber QB until he proves he can play in December. The playoffs were still in reach and the offense failed to put games away when the defense gave them chances. Defense sucked, but ignoring the offensive struggles is misguided. There are problems on both sides. Albeit larger on defense because they don't have any talents on defense and nobody who can make plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Keep it real we’re you in the start mariota vs Mia group? i remember a lot here didn’t even want to watch the game if dc started No lol. I've always been a fan of DC. Couldn't care less about whether or not Mariota would do well against Miami. I stick to my guns on my opinion that Mariota isn't the player we saw against the Chargers. He played terribly for Tennessee and they moved on. I assume he'd end up with the same level of production with us. Clearly Tennessee had the talent to go to the playoffs, and they did it with Tannehill. I think Mariota would be a step towards mediocrity (6-10) all over again. I watched the game. I watched them all, and I still think DC is a really good QB, sometimes even great. Sometimes one of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Just now, big_palooka said: What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? This for those "a defense away" arguments who want to ignore that the offense improving is not a given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, big_palooka said: What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? If everything goes wrong, it will surely go wrong. Have a drink or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, big_palooka said: What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? They will start crying and saying Carr doesn't have enough help. It's a cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, big_palooka said: What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? This for those "a defense away" arguments who want to ignore that the offense improving is not a given. Resigning or even replacing Agholor is much easier to do than finding essentially 3-4 new starters on defense (DE, DT, FS, another CB probably). We literally lost our #1 WR, RT, and LG and still were 10th in scoring. I'm not really worried about the offense unless DC, Waller, or Jacobs goes down. Edited January 21, 2021 by Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: They will start crying and saying Carr doesn't have enough help. It's a cycle. Nobody was saying that when Tyrell Williams went down. Or when two starting OL went down. Or when Ruggs missed games. I do recall people saying our offense was clearly different without Ruggs on the field, but they didn't say DC couldn't produce because he was missing, just that the offense was clearly different. I mean unless you want to start pulling responses from post game threads, I really don't recall anyone saying that DC didn't have enough weapons this season. Edited January 21, 2021 by Jerry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) My internet is acting up. Edited January 21, 2021 by Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: What would this offense have been with out Agholor? He's currently a FA. What happens when they lose him and can't replicate the production and the offense slides back? Disaster if the rooks don't step up. I think they can but I'd rather see them with Agholor personally. Renfrow can rotate in and out on some plays and Ruggs can get time in the slot with Edwards and Agholor outside IMO. Or put Agholor in the slot. It's never bad to have a veteran receiver in a young group. If we can keep him for under 10 million a year, I think it'll be a great deal. I'd do up to 2-20, but ideally more like 2-16. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said: They will start crying and saying Carr doesn't have enough help. It's a cycle. Needs more time to develop chemistry for 1000 Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Disaster if the rooks don't step up. I think they can but I'd rather see them with Agholor personally. Renfrow can rotate in and out on some plays and Ruggs can get time in the slot with Edwards and Agholor outside IMO. Or put Agholor in the slot. It's never bad to have a veteran receiver in a young group. If we can keep him for under 10 million a year, I think it'll be a great deal. I'd do up to 2-20, but ideally more like 2-16. I keep saying this but we are going to look stupid if we give him a good contract. The top players are going to get paid but the 2nd 3rd 4th tier guys are going to take less. We are going to loss 15% of the expected cap if it goes down to $175 million. Every team is losing enough money to sign 2-3 quality players and you think Agholor is going to get $10 million. That would make him close to a top 20 WR which he is not. If Williams does not go down or we draft Lamb then Agholor does not have half the season he just did. He played well for us and I am not against bringing him back but he is not close to being worth $10 million to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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