The Carr dilemma in 2021

[Geezy]

7 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

The number 1 reason is the position they play. Carr isn't the best player on this team.

exactly, Carr is making average QB money with no guarantees remaining. Bringing up money only solidifies the fact that DC aint the problem as his contract isnt holding us back from bringing in new talent, if he was making top 3 money, and only performing as a top 10 QB, id have a problem with it. 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't know if you've seen some of JDR's posts on twitter over the last few years but there's no doubt there was a disconnect between the players and him over political reasons.

I did not want to speculate whether it was political because that turned into a big argument.  Weeks 1 and 2 we looked like the 2016 version but week three when Carr stood next to JDR with 1 or 2 other players while the rest sat on the bench that was the beginning of the end.  For a while you would see a WR catch a TD and everyone would be celebrating until Carr got to it.  There was one in particular were Seth Roberts scored and he was smiling ear to ear until Carr got there.  He got a serious look on his face and just jogged away from Carr and did not acknowledge him.  I get the feeling that Carr is the type of person to be the teacher's pet.  This is all just my opinion with some evidence to back it up but I know none of this for sure.

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, Geezy said:

exactly, Carr is making average QB money with no guarantees remaining. Bringing up money only solidifies the fact that DC aint the problem as his contract isnt holding us back from bringing in new talent, if he was making top 3 money, and only performing as a top 10 QB, id have a problem with it. 

Its the money we have to invest in the o-line to help him that is.  On top of that two of our top 3 missed most of the season.  

[Jerry]

48 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I did not want to speculate whether it was political because that turned into a big argument.  Weeks 1 and 2 we looked like the 2016 version but week three when Carr stood next to JDR with 1 or 2 other players while the rest sat on the bench that was the beginning of the end.  For a while you would see a WR catch a TD and everyone would be celebrating until Carr got to it.  There was one in particular were Seth Roberts scored and he was smiling ear to ear until Carr got there.  He got a serious look on his face and just jogged away from Carr and did not acknowledge him.  I get the feeling that Carr is the type of person to be the teacher's pet.  This is all just my opinion with some evidence to back it up but I know none of this for sure.

That whole situation just sucked.  Poorly handled across the board.  The team should have taken more time to figure out how to do things in solidarity.  Instead it possibly created tension and division.  JDR mishandled the crap out of it.  I still think 2017 was going to be a down year for us.  Just hate that the downward spiral may have stemmed from that whole situation.

[Humble_Beast]

Every QB needs a good OL.... this debate is cringeworthy 

[Geezy]

15 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Its the money we have to invest in the o-line to help him that is.  On top of that two of our top 3 missed most of the season.  

i mean, most QBs need some protection lol and like you said, Richie and Trent were gone, that was about $28m on the sidelines last season and he did just fine. 

[Geezy]

11 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

Every QB needs a good OL.... this debate is cringeworthy 

theyll say anything to discredit DC, we been through this before. 

[Jerry]

18 minutes ago, Geezy said:

i mean, most QBs need some protection lol and like you said, Richie and Trent were gone, that was about $28m on the sidelines last season and he did just fine. 

Just imagine what our offense could be if that 30M on the sidelines (Williams, Brown, Incognito) actually played this season.  Or if that 30M was invested in 2-3 high caliber defensive players.  Just crazy how roughly a sixth of our cap was wasted this past offseason.

[drfrey13]

11 hours ago, Geezy said:

i mean, most QBs need some protection lol and like you said, Richie and Trent were gone, that was about $28m on the sidelines last season and he did just fine. 

From what everyone around here has said is that Carr has a relatively cheap cap hit for a QB.  I will give you that.  So why have we spent more on Carr, who is suppose to be cheap, and the o-line than the entire defense.  Either we have focused on the o-line to much for Carr or it is ridiculous how much we have ignored the defense.  Everyone said Carr needs more weapons and talent on the offense and that is why he has not done well.  We had to sacrifice the defense to give Carr what some said he needed.  Now the FO and Gruden have failed so they carry some of the blame for wasting money and draft picks but you have to choose between investing in the defense or giving Carr talent.  We will not have both.  So this brings me back to what I have said a few times.  We need Carr or Gruden to leave.  I am not saying people can not improve but from what many Carr supporters say around here is that the offense is not the problem.  It is when you have to ignore the other side of the ball to accomplish your goals.  No denying the defense needs to get better but the offense may need to maintain or do more with less.

[MrOaktown_56]

11 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

From what everyone around here has said is that Carr has a relatively cheap cap hit for a QB.  I will give you that.  So why have we spent more on Carr, who is suppose to be cheap, and the o-line than the entire defense.  Either we have focused on the o-line to much for Carr or it is ridiculous how much we have ignored the defense.  Everyone said Carr needs more weapons and talent on the offense and that is why he has not done well.  We had to sacrifice the defense to give Carr what some said he needed.  Now the FO and Gruden have failed so they carry some of the blame for wasting money and draft picks but you have to choose between investing in the defense or giving Carr talent.  We will not have both.  So this brings me back to what I have said a few times.  We need Carr or Gruden to leave.  I am not saying people can not improve but from what many Carr supporters say around here is that the offense is not the problem.  It is when you have to ignore the other side of the ball to accomplish your goals.  No denying the defense needs to get better but the offense may need to maintain or do more with less.

Absolutely, they will find a way to maneuver I'm sure.

[big_palooka]

The reports coming out also brings into view why I don't believe in Carr to ever win a Superbowl. 

You can have good work ethic, but do players rally around you? Carr, going back to 2017 when the wheels fell off, has never felt like he has much of a voice.

He's been with the team 7 years and there are talks of accountability? He's the franchise QB and teammates are outwardly talking about accountability? That's pretty telling.

[Blazer026]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

The reports coming out also brings into view why I don't believe in Carr to ever win a Superbowl. 

You can have good work ethic, but do players rally around you? Carr, going back to 2017 when the wheels fell off, has never felt like he has much of a voice.

He's been with the team 7 years and there are talks of accountability? He's the franchise QB and teammates are outwardly talking about accountability? That's pretty telling.

I think Carr could take us to a super bowl. I mean Jimmy G, Goff, and Foles went the last 3 years. I would argue Carr is just as good if not better than all of them. Obviously we need to be better as a team though. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Blazer026 said:

I think Carr could take us to a super bowl. I mean Jimmy G, Goff, and Foles went the last 3 years. I would argue Carr is just as good if not better than all of them. Obviously we need to be better as a team though. 

Shannahan and McVey are two of the best coaches in the NFL. And there will alway be one off Superbowl teams. But consistently, the teams with the best QB are in the biggest games. 

Gruden is not a good coach. He's to impatient and has a huge ego. They will never properly build this roster to compete in the AFC.

That's my view of it. I know this is a place for optimism, but I refuse to look blindly at the fact this organization is steeped in loosing culture and is currently trending in the wrong direction under Gruden. He blew up the roster to get his guys and has failed predictably over 3 years to field a winning team.

Carr.... good guy, good player. Not a leader who is holding teammates accountable in practice and the locker room. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by big_palooka

[bucksavage1]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

The reports coming out also brings into view why I don't believe in Carr to ever win a Superbowl. 

You can have good work ethic, but do players rally around you? Carr, going back to 2017 when the wheels fell off, has never felt like he has much of a voice.

He's been with the team 7 years and there are talks of accountability? He's the franchise QB and teammates are outwardly talking about accountability? That's pretty telling.

100%  agree. Carr has been here for 7 seasons and only 1 have resulted into a playoff appearance

People like to claim on this forum that wins are a team stat but that isnt 100 true.

Win loss record are attributed to coaches and QBs because they have the biggest impact on the team. Leadership and accountability falls mostly on the QB and coaches.

Tom Brady took a team who was out of the playoffs into the super bowl? Part of that is leadership. 

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Shannahan and McVey are two of the best coaches in the NFL. And there will alway be one off Superbowl teams. But consistently, the teams with the best QB are in the biggest games. 

Gruden is not a good coach. He's to impatient and has a huge ego. They will never properly build this roster to compete in the AFC.

That's my view of it. I know this is a place for optimism, but I refuse to look blindly at the fact this organization is steeped in loosing culture and is currently trending in the wrong direction under Gruden. He blew up the roster to get his guys and has failed predictably over 3 years to field a winning team.

Carr.... good guy, good player. Not a leader who is holding teammates accountable in practice and the locker room. 

Beyond the 2017 debacle I have spoken about Carr leading.  His pregame hype speeches seem fake because he does not sacrifice on the field.  One of the reasons why I liked Fitz more than Carr even though Carr is a better QB.  You fight for Fitz because he leaves it on the field.  He will hold onto to the ball to let the play develop knowing he is going to take a big shot or will take a hit to pick up a 1st down with his legs.  Some posters make excuses for Carr saying they do not want there QB taking hits but sometimes it is the right choice.  A true leader will only ask you to sacrifice if they are willing to also.  If it is 3rd and 8 you do not slide after 7 yards.  You get to 8 even when it means you are going to get hit.  It brings new life to your team.  That next play your o-line is going to look to inflect some pain on the defense for hitting you.  Your WRs will go across the middle and take the shot to secure the catch.  The RB will lower his shoulder and gain positive yards.  Everyone will look to you for guidance and motivation.  The QB sets the tone on offence.  You think Jacobs wants to go out and take a big shot to pick up a couple yards if Carr keeps throwing the ball away so he does not get hit.  You want to bring out the best you have to have a good leader.  Carr has improved but this and situational awareness I believe are his 2 biggest flaws.