NYRaider Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: 100% agree with the Brown choice. When I saw we traded up my first thought was Brown but since he ran a 5.4+ 40 (This is an almost unanimous league wide rule of thumb) he did not fit Cables mold of what a RT should be able to do. If you catch my theme here you know I am not a fan of Cable's choices. He can be a good coach but is a horrible talent evaluator. Just weird that we didn't draft Orlando Brown because he didn't fit Cable's mold at RT then gave Trent Brown the biggest contract for a RT in NFL history when he's essentially the same player. Not even sure why 40 time is such a huge deal for OT, when in the history of football has an OT had to run 40 yards in a straight line during a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Point being we should have never had Penn or Parker on the right. If you wanted a RT you draft a RT like Brown. Miller was good at RT also. Miller was vocal about how hard it was to transition from RT to LT at UCLA. The long-term plan for him was to be our LT so I don't think that they wanted to start him at RT so Penn could play LT then move him back to LT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Miller was vocal about how hard it was to transition from RT to LT at UCLA. The long-term plan for him was to be our LT so I don't think that they wanted to start him at RT so Penn could play LT then move him back to LT. That is also why I said there where other options besides Miller that had RT experience. Penn at LG and KO at RT would have been a much better option also. I thought Miller could have been a top 3 RT in the league and Parker could have been a decent starter at LT. Which leads to your other comment. 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Just weird that we didn't draft Orlando Brown because he didn't fit Cable's mold at RT then gave Trent Brown the biggest contract for a RT in NFL history when he's essentially the same player. Not even sure why 40 time is such a huge deal for OT, when in the history of football has an OT had to run 40 yards in a straight line during a game? TB ran a 5.29 40. TB had also shown that he could produce at a high level already. The reasoning for the 5.4 cutoff is statistically players who run that slow have a ridiculously high bust rate. They are thought of as having heavy feet and mobility issues. There were a lot of options we could have choose that would have kept us from signing and wasting money on Trent Brown. I know a lot of people like Cable but I see the money and draft picks invested in the line and we have not gotten out what we have invested. A lot of it has to do with Cable trying to be the smartest guy in the room instead of just trying not to make the stupid decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 18 hours ago, NYRaider said: Just weird that we didn't draft Orlando Brown because he didn't fit Cable's mold at RT then gave Trent Brown the biggest contract for a RT in NFL history when he's essentially the same player. Not even sure why 40 time is such a huge deal for OT, when in the history of football has an OT had to run 40 yards in a straight line during a game? Its the same as CBs and the bench it doesn't mean a lot in the games but shows they don't workout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said: Its the same as CBs and the bench it doesn't mean a lot in the games but shows they don't workout. A lot of the workouts do not make much since. I would rather see standing reach reach for WRs and DBs. Squat, clean, and deadlift for linemen. The 40 is good for linemen when it comes to a 10 yard split. Beyond that it only shows you are a good or bad athlete but the 10 yard split should already show your functional athleticism for the position. I would like to see a statistical analysis of what the good predictors of boom or bust categories are of combine measurements. The 5.4 mark in the 40 for O-linemen is the only one I have heard about that has a very strong prediction rate. Ibet if they had standing reach for DBs it would be a better predictor than height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 23 hours ago, drfrey13 said: TB ran a 5.29 40. TB had also shown that he could produce at a high level already. The reasoning for the 5.4 cutoff is statistically players who run that slow have a ridiculously high bust rate. They are thought of as having heavy feet and mobility issues. There were a lot of options we could have choose that would have kept us from signing and wasting money on Trent Brown. I know a lot of people like Cable but I see the money and draft picks invested in the line and we have not gotten out what we have invested. A lot of it has to do with Cable trying to be the smartest guy in the room instead of just trying not to make the stupid decision. And that's why it's important to watch film rather than judge prospects based on what they can do in underwear and a t-shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: The 5.4 mark in the 40 for O-linemen is the only one I have heard about that has a very strong prediction rate. How many guys have multiple years of dominant All-American tape, great measurable's, and win the OL of the year and then go on to be complete busts? How many D3 LT go on to become great NFL players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 6 hours ago, drfrey13 said: A lot of the workouts do not make much since. I would rather see standing reach reach for WRs and DBs. Squat, clean, and deadlift for linemen. The 40 is good for linemen when it comes to a 10 yard split. Beyond that it only shows you are a good or bad athlete but the 10 yard split should already show your functional athleticism for the position. I would like to see a statistical analysis of what the good predictors of boom or bust categories are of combine measurements. The 5.4 mark in the 40 for O-linemen is the only one I have heard about that has a very strong prediction rate. Ibet if they had standing reach for DBs it would be a better predictor than height. You're probably right but that's not the way it is? Brown had 3 months to get ready for the 40 and ran a worst time then the guys from NFL Network wearing a suit and ties with dress shoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 8 hours ago, NYRaider said: And that's why it's important to watch film rather than judge prospects based on what they can do in underwear and a t-shirt. This was close to my statement the night of the draft. I love the combine and you can get a lot of information from it but it should only reinforce positives or negatives. If a guy looks fast on tape and then runs fast fast at the combine I feel better about my assessment. If a guy is fast on tape and runs slow I go back and watch the tape again to see if there is something I missed. If the tape still looks amazing then I stick to the game film and re-watch the combine. Someone like Ferrell I would have wanted to see something special at the combine because he did not look athletic like a #4 prospect should. When we got virtually nothing at the combine or pro day I would have automatically moved him down my board. Especially because he had every advantage in college. Boldin and Burfict are good examples of people you ignore the combine with. We should have taken Brown without question in the 3rd. His tape screamed 1st round pick. I do not know how it will work out but our front office showed with the Arnette pick that they will ignore the combine but there was a reason why he ran slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 8 hours ago, NYRaider said: How many guys have multiple years of dominant All-American tape, great measurable's, and win the OL of the year and then go on to be complete busts? How many D3 LT go on to become great NFL players? Agree but the stats show that 5.4 number is legitimate 95%+ of the time. It is a big red flag but I would have taken Brown in the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said: You're probably right but that's not the way it is? Brown had 3 months to get ready for the 40 and ran a worst time then the guys from NFL Network wearing a suit and ties with dress shoes. He did not run that bad but it would have been close. I think they did an overlap of their runs. 1:48 Watch his tape and tell me that is not a 1st round prospect. If he is not at the combine he is in the running with Miller and McGlinchey. Miller is the best 1st round tackle from 2018 but Brown can argue he is the best tackle from that draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Agree but the stats show that 5.4 number is legitimate 95%+ of the time. It is a big red flag but I would have taken Brown in the 2nd. How often do unanimous All-American's that were named the best OT in their conferences bust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 I wanted brown in 3rd round or 2nd with trade back.. but didn't matter if he was going to complain about not being LT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 13 hours ago, roi34 said: I wanted brown in 3rd round or 2nd with trade back.. but didn't matter if he was going to complain about not being LT I think he wanted LT money. If he wanted to be a LT then we could have had him battle with Miller. Not a bad dilemma to have. Worst case scenario we would have had a really good RT on a rookie contract, that stayed on the field who we could have traded this year, recouped what we spent on him, still drafted Leatherwood and Moehrig, and had an extra 3rd 4th and 5th, plus an extra $40 million. Picking Parker over Brown, I am blaming you Cable, set the team back. When you break it all down I do not know if Cable or Guenther was worse for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 On 6/5/2021 at 11:29 AM, NYRaider said: Just weird that we didn't draft Orlando Brown because he didn't fit Cable's mold at RT then gave Trent Brown the biggest contract for a RT in NFL history when he's essentially the same player. Not even sure why 40 time is such a huge deal for OT, when in the history of football has an OT had to run 40 yards in a straight line during a game? Yup I had Brown as the #1 OT and top 10 pick people got stupid based on the way his body looked running a 40 when he was dominant on the football field. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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