MacReady Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, incognito_man said: NE is 30th in defensive DVOA. They'd love to have our defense right now. What has it been the last three to four weeks? Because they started out pretty horribly in points against this year and they've gotten better each week. Not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevein2012 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 5 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: What has it been the last three to four weeks? Because they started out pretty horribly in points against this year and they've gotten better each week. Not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested. NE was 30.9% DVOA after week 4 and like 20 something now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I dont care if our DVOA was 2 and NE was 32. When a big game comes around, anyone who says they'd take the Packers D and Dom over NE's D is an idiot, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugLymayNe Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, packfanfb said: I dont care if our DVOA was 2 and NE was 32. When a big game comes around, anyone who says they'd take the Packers D and Dom over NE's D is an idiot, period. "sCrEw FaCtS iM rIgHt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Just now, ugLymayNe said: "sCrEw FaCtS iM rIgHt" Patriots have gone up 10 ranks in DVOA since week 4 after their best player went out for the year with an injury, so I don't know why anybody would suggest it's anything close to stupid to think that Patricia is better than Dom Capers. You could absolutely make an argument that our defensive players are much better than their players, but laughing at somebody for suggesting the Patriots defense is better than ours is pretty laughable itself considering the Patriots started out as the worst scoring defense in the league through four weeks and they're now the 15th best. Points are literally the only thing that matters, and the Patriots have allowed 12.5 points per game over the last six games. Our last six games? 24.8 points per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFP7 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: Patriots have gone up 10 ranks in DVOA since week 4 after their best player went out for the year with an injury, so I don't know why anybody would suggest it's anything close to stupid to think that Patricia is better than Dom Capers. You could absolutely make an argument that our defensive players are much better than their players, but laughing at somebody for suggesting the Patriots defense is better than ours is pretty laughable itself considering the Patriots started out as the worst scoring defense in the league through four weeks and they're now the 15th best. Points are literally the only thing that matters, and the Patriots have allowed 12.5 points per game over the last six games. Our last six games? 24.8 points per game. Points are the only thing that matters when talking about overall teams...but when you single out one side of the ball don't you think you have to look a little more closely? Dallas gave up fewer points last year than the Vikings...do you really think their defense was better (and fifth overall in the league)? Though I do agree that Patricia is better than Capers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Just now, KFP7 said: Points are the only thing that matters when talking about overall teams...but when you single out one side of the ball don't you think you have to look a little more closely? Dallas gave up fewer points last year than the Vikings...do you really think their defense was better (and fifth overall in the league)? Though I do agree that Patricia is better than Capers. I'll admit that there are certain circumstances that impact defense. A good running game certainly helps. At the same time, the Vikings defense absolutely fell apart at the end of last year. They gave up 12.6 points per game through the first 5 weeks. 22 points per game over the next 11. Quote Though I do agree that Patricia is better than Capers. That's the bottom line here. I think we've got 11 players on defense that are top 5-10 in the NFL as far as talent. There are 20 teams in this league that would kill for our defensive line. Nick Perry is an all-pro talent when he puts it all together and is healthy. Randall is a playmaker with maturity issues, but a playmaker nonetheless. Clinton-Dix has talent and all-pro potential. Burnett, Martinez, King... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 15 hours ago, strat1080 said: You'll never win a Super Bowl if you settle for average though. Average doesn't cut it in an organization like New England. That's the problem now with Thompson, McCarthy, the organization and fanbase. Settling with mediocrity. You have to strive for excellence in all phases of the game. Our defense and special teams have been mediocre for years yet the same coordinators stay in their jobs year after year. You go and you look up the rankings for New England and they are a Top 10 scoring offense year after year, they are a Top 10 scoring defense year after year, and a Top 10 special teams unit year after year. We are a long ways away from that kind of organizational excellence. Who in the Packers organization or the fan base is settling for mediocrity?? Just because we don't grouse if the team doesn't make an appearance in the Super Bowl doesn't mean we aren't disappointed. Our coaches know if they fail their jobs are on the line. The players know this too. Right now our team was built to exploit the considerable talents of our All World QB so we all knew when he got hurt we were in trouble. It sucks but this is a temporary situation. What NE is doing is historic and we won't see another franchise doing what they have done these past dozen years or so in a long time. This season if the Pats lose Brady like we lost AR they'd be in trouble too because their defense isn't what it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFP7 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 59 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: I'll admit that there are certain circumstances that impact defense. A good running game certainly helps. At the same time, the Vikings defense absolutely fell apart at the end of last year. They gave up 12.6 points per game through the first 5 weeks. 22 points per game over the next 11. That's the bottom line here. I think we've got 11 players on defense that are top 5-10 in the NFL as far as talent. There are 20 teams in this league that would kill for our defensive line. Nick Perry is an all-pro talent when he puts it all together and is healthy. Randall is a playmaker with maturity issues, but a playmaker nonetheless. Clinton-Dix has talent and all-pro potential. Burnett, Martinez, King... With so much talent, how close are we to utilizing a defense similar to Seattle's of the last few years? Basically, our guys are better than yours so we will just play straight up. It seems to be a common opinion that Capers is just too complicated and it ends up hurting our defense more than it confuses the other team. I think there is still some wishful thinking going on, but maybe if King does become that #1 corner he looks to be, HHCD proves its just a down year, and we add another OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Pugger said: Who in the Packers organization or the fan base is settling for mediocrity?? Over the past 6.5 seasons, the Packers D has been the epitome of MEDIOCRITY. Occasional flashes of good, more flashes of not good, but by and large mostly MEDIOCRE. This MEDIOCRITY reigns despite the fact the GM has used his top pick on D in the last 6 drafts and the majority of cap space was devoted to the D between 2011 and 2016. Don't recall any defensive coaches losing their jobs, or at least not the key ones Capers, Trgovac, Moss, Whitt, and Perry, during this time. If that is NOT SETTLING FOR MEDIOCRITY, what would be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 The injury excuse - Quote "Adjusted Games Lost (AGL) metric... [quantifies] how much teams were affected by injuries based on two principles: (1) Injuries to starters, injury replacements, and important situational reserves matter more than injuries to benchwarmers; and (2) Injured players who do take the field are usually playing with reduced ability, which is why AGL is not based strictly on whether or not the player is active for the game, but instead is based on the player's listed status that week (IR/PUP, out, doubtful, questionable, or probable)." 2016 adjusted games lost on defense: 19th (higher is worse) with 35.3 AGL. 2015 AGL on defense: 14th with 26.5 AGL 2014 AGL on defense: 9th with 31.0 AGL 2013 AGL on Defense: 29th with 59.3 AGL 2012: can't find full data, team overall was 32nd (most injured team with) 100+ AGL across both offense and defense. 2011: same thing, but team was 16th rather than 32nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 3 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said: Over the past 6.5 seasons, the Packers D has been the epitome of MEDIOCRITY. Occasional flashes of good, more flashes of not good, but by and large mostly MEDIOCRE. This MEDIOCRITY reigns despite the fact the GM has used his top pick on D in the last 6 drafts and the majority of cap space was devoted to the D between 2011 and 2016. Don't recall any defensive coaches losing their jobs, or at least not the key ones Capers, Trgovac, Moss, Whitt, and Perry, during this time. If that is NOT SETTLING FOR MEDIOCRITY, what would be? They may have given Capers a longer leash than others would have but we shall see what happens this offseason. I don't know what good it would do to can Capers right now. One good thing about losing Rodgers is every wart on this team is magnified so perhaps these issues will finally be addressed. If there are no changes this January I will hop right up on the Fire Everybody bandwagon. The best thing we as fans can do is write a thoughtful letter to Mark Murphy about our concerns about the direction of the defense all these years. If we are respectful perhaps Mark will urge Ted and McCarthy to make this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 What do I want? Jalen Collins. When do I want him? Right now. Somebody tell me how stupid I am for wanting him. He's 24 years old until March. Raiders just fired their defensive coordinator and they have less wins than us. Why can't we fire Capers? Because his defense performed well the last two weeks against two bad offenses. This post is everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNPackfan32 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said: What do I want? Jalen Collins. When do I want him? Right now. Somebody tell me how stupid I am for wanting him. He's 24 years old until March. Raiders just fired their defensive coordinator and they have less wins than us. Why can't we fire Capers? Because his defense performed well the last two weeks against two bad offenses. This post is everywhere. I agree with you on Collins. I'm all for giving him a chance here. What do we have to lose? Roll him and King outside with DR23 inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugLymayNe Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I loved Jalen Collins as a prospect. I agree, but he's on waivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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