Defense Discussion [2017]

[incognito_man]

23 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

In order to expedite the process, might as well collect all the explanations (not excuses, but "explanations") as to why Ted should in no way be held accountable for Kyler Fackrell being the worst ranked OLBer in the NFL in 2017:

-Whomever it is that ranked Fackrell as the worst OLBer is either biased against the Pack or incompetent or both;

-If the "explanation" above fails, try the no one, least of all the GM of the Packers, could have possibly known Fackrell was going to be this bad and anyone criticizing Fackrell now is just relying upon hindsight;

-Then there is the always popular Fackrell just needs another year in the weight room (caution do not bring up the fact he turns 27 next season and is just 2 months younger than Bakhtiari);

-Another good one is Fackrell only played so much in 2017 because Perry and Matthews got injured (again be sure to ignore the injury histories of Matthews and Perry in making this argument);

-A new one is Peppers was dead set on getting out of GB and returning to Carolina so Ted was left with an impossible situation at OLB this offseason (if repeated often enough this might even be believed);

-A new favorite, ALL problems on the defensive side of the ball are Dom's fault, ALL of them including Fackrell; and

-If all else fails and you are pushed to explain why a 2016 draftee was given significant time at the all important OLB position and failed so badly that he was ranked the worst player at his position in the NFL, just go with the old standby that Fackrell was just a 3rd round pick and every GM misses sometimes but our Ted is an elite drafter so there.

By no means should a Ted fan ever concede any of the following: (i) Fackrell was a bad draft pick, (ii) counting on Fackrell to be a contributor as an OLBer in 2017 was a poor decision, and (iii) the OLB position was a position of weakness in 2017 primarily because the GM failed to provide sufficient talent.

Dude. Nobody likes Fackrell. You're not a unique snowflake here...

[Dubz41]

I'll fess up.  I liked Fackrell.   When we drafted him I was pretty happy.  I believe even Palmy noted that Fack had the smoothest hip turn in the draft.  His college tape showed that he was always around the ball.  Good speed for someone his size. Then he got here and became so 'assignment' conscious that he never cut it loose.  Very disappointed, but the piling on with the hindsighters gets old.  Fack won't be a starter, but he is a decent STer and might be better as a nickel ILB.  So go ahead- I like Fack even if he sucks at OLB.

[incognito_man]

34 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

I'll fess up.  I liked Fackrell.   When we drafted him I was pretty happy.  I believe even Palmy noted that Fack had the smoothest hip turn in the draft.  His college tape showed that he was always around the ball.  Good speed for someone his size. Then he got here and became so 'assignment' conscious that he never cut it loose.  Very disappointed, but the piling on with the hindsighters gets old.  Fack won't be a starter, but he is a decent STer and might be better as a nickel ILB.  So go ahead- I like Fack even if he sucks at OLB.

Oh I know. I meant nobody likes him [as an OLB] today. He's the red-headed stepchild of this forum. He was an intriguing prospect coming out, however. Just didn't work out. Not all 3rd round picks do, right ToT?

[CWood21]

52 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

I'll fess up.  I liked Fackrell.   When we drafted him I was pretty happy.  I believe even Palmy noted that Fack had the smoothest hip turn in the draft.  His college tape showed that he was always around the ball.  Good speed for someone his size. Then he got here and became so 'assignment' conscious that he never cut it loose.  Very disappointed, but the piling on with the hindsighters gets old.  Fack won't be a starter, but he is a decent STer and might be better as a nickel ILB.  So go ahead- I like Fack even if he sucks at OLB.

You're not the only one who was intrigued by him as a prospect.  Like I've mentioned, if you watch his tape against USC his freshman year you would have thought we were looking at a future 1st round pick in a few years.  Instead, a torn ACL and utilized in a poor way saw him drop down the draft boards.  Honestly, gambles like him and Khyri Thornton aren't gambles I dislike.  Because if they didn't come with their "issues", they're clear 1st round picks.  It's the gambles like Datone Jones that I don't like.

[TheOnlyThing]

5 hours ago, packerrfan74 said:

No GM is perfect. Acknowledge his weaknesses and shortcomings but don't forget to praise his successes. All hail TT

How about this.

With regard to player procurement/roster management was outstanding/elite for the first six years Ted was the GM of the Packers 2005-2010.

However, since then it has been nothing better than mediocre. There have been highs to be sure, Bakhtiari, Daniels, Kenny Clark among others. But lots of lows as well.

Those of us willing to criticize Ted have never claimed he is horrible, or the worst GM in the NFL, but we also do not believe he has been all that good since 2011 either.

The Ted "can and does almost no wrong crowd" cannot accept this view and thus, even when discussing the obvious talent deficiencies at OLB in 2017, point in every direction other than Ted to "explain" why.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Those of us willing to criticize Ted have never claimed he is horrible, or the worst GM in the NFL, but we also do not believe he has been all that good since 2011 either.

The Ted "can and does almost no wrong crowd" cannot accept this view and thus, even when discussing the obvious talent deficiencies at OLB in 2017, point in every direction other than Ted to "explain" why.

 

You're just going to sit here and throw out those two labels with a straight face and no shame? Huh, I admire your audacity. 

[MacReady]

Who even is the Ted can and does almost no wrong crowd?  Who?  That crowd doesn't exist.  Sometimes I swear... I swear...

[TheOnlyThing]

13 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Dude. Nobody likes Fackrell. 

Given he has played >42% of the defensive snaps, Ted and Dom seem to like Kyler plenty.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Given he has played >42% of the defensive snaps, Ted and Dom seem to like Kyler plenty.

 

When your Top 3 OLBs miss 12 games between them, the #4 guy is going to carry some reps unfortunately.

[TheOnlyThing]

Just now, AlexGreen#20 said:

When your Top 3 OLBs miss 12 games between them, the #4 guy is going to carry some reps unfortunately.

Given that Green Bay played 4 OLBs extensively in 2016 and Clay and Perry both have extensive, extensive injury histories, did you really not expect Fackrell not to carry many reps in 2017?

If so, why?

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Given that Green Bay played 4 OLBs extensively in 2016 and Clay and Perry both have extensive, extensive injury histories, did you really not expect Fackrell not to carry many reps in 2017?

If so, why?

The only way you can say that GB played 4 OLBs extensively in 2016 is if you are willing to make the claim that Datone Jones was an OLB. I dispute that point, and the snap counts of Dean Lowry this year back that up. Jones was an interior rusher and playing the same role Lowry is currently.

If you label Jones as anything other than an OLB, that leaves you with a combination of Fackrell and Elliott combining to be 32% of snaps at the #4/#5 OLB spot in 2016. Biegel would have been penciled in to take 10% of those in 2017.

That leaves you with Fackrell being penciled in to take 22% of snaps in 2017. Is that number frustrating, absolutely, but it's a good number to bring along a young guy you spent a mid tier draft pick on, I'd argue yes. 

[Stevein2012]

7 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Given that Green Bay played 4 OLBs extensively in 2016 and Clay and Perry both have extensive, extensive injury histories, did you really not expect Fackrell not to carry many reps in 2017?

If so, why?

A lot of Datones snaps were not at OLB and Peppers was there specifically to be situational type pass rusher so yeah his snaps were purposeful as the #3 last year because of who he was not the design of the defense.  So the generic "playing 4 OLB extensively" does not really hold up.

[Pugger]

22 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

I'll fess up.  I liked Fackrell.   When we drafted him I was pretty happy.  I believe even Palmy noted that Fack had the smoothest hip turn in the draft.  His college tape showed that he was always around the ball.  Good speed for someone his size. Then he got here and became so 'assignment' conscious that he never cut it loose.  Very disappointed, but the piling on with the hindsighters gets old.  Fack won't be a starter, but he is a decent STer and might be better as a nickel ILB.  So go ahead- I like Fack even if he sucks at OLB.

This might be the real reason why our defense struggles for ALL of our guys.  They might be thinking too much instead of just playing using their natural abilities.  God, I hope McCarthy will make a move this offseason.  If he doesn't I'm all aboard the fire the lot of them bandwagon.  Rodgers isn't getting any younger.  Enough of this nonsense!  

[AlexGreen#20]

19 minutes ago, Pugger said:

This might be the real reason why our defense struggles for ALL of our guys.  They might be thinking too much instead of just playing using their natural abilities.  God, I hope McCarthy will make a move this offseason.  If he doesn't I'm all aboard the fire the lot of them bandwagon.  Rodgers isn't getting any younger.  Enough of this nonsense!  

Being assignment unsure has nothing to do with Fackrell sucking.

Fackrell sucks because he lacks physical ability. 

He runs a 7.34 3-cone and has a 34" vertical at 245 pounds. When you're stiff and lack explosive power, you're going to have a very hard time beating tackles. He's also 39 years old.

This was the sort of pick that any sort of mathematics based evaluation was going to flag bright red. 

[Norm]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Being assignment unsure has nothing to do with Fackrell sucking.

Fackrell sucks because he lacks physical ability. 

He runs a 7.34 3-cone and has a 34" vertical at 245 pounds. When you're stiff and lack explosive power, you're going to have a very hard time beating tackles. He's also 39 years old.

This was the sort of pick that any sort of mathematics based evaluation was going to flag bright red. 

Lol @39 years old