grizmo78 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Looking like difference between a win and loss today would have been the 8th or 9th pick (Depending on if PHI wins or not) vs 12th Edit: Corrected by Broncosfan_101 Edited January 4, 2021 by grizmo78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 minute ago, grizmo78 said: Looking like difference between a win and loss today would have been the 9th pick in the draft (our spot assuming PHI losses) and the 12th pick. If PHI wins, difference would be 8th pick vs 13th. With a win today, tonight’s game wouldn’t have mattered. Three NFC East teams would’ve been ahead of us, and one (the division winner) behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said: With a win today, tonight’s game wouldn’t have mattered. Three NFC East teams would’ve been ahead of us, and one (the division winner) behind. Ah gotcha, good call. So either way would have been pick 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: A 70-yard attempt? What a f***ing godd**n embarrassment of a joke this franchise has become. Fangio is complete idiot. A Hail Mary had a better chance at success. Mr. B is spinning in his grave. You have something against Bud Light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I really didn't watch the game with anywhere near the level of attention needed to comment on the game in any depth. From what I saw, we got beat deep time after time after time on Defense and Carr missed at least 3 long bomb TDs. There was plenty of blame to go around. Both Safety and CBs played a part, as well as a lacking pass rush. Drew showed more good than bad in my opinion. The pocket manipulation on the Jeudy throw was what I have been screaming out for all season. Hang in there, keep eyes downfield and delivered a perfect ball to hit his guy in stride. The result speaks for itself. Still, the game is moving too quick for him in the RZ and that is fine for a young QB, playing with a beat up team. Given our draft position, I honestly think the best way forward is to give him a full offseason in the same scheme with a (likely) very similar Offense personnel. This team is in DIRE need of game changing Defensive Linemen, CBs and consistent pass rush (1 + 3 could be the same). PFF seems to think it's a strong CB FA class but a weak interior DL FA class and a weak DL draft class. Big pressure on this team to find DL from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 51 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said: I really didn't watch the game with anywhere near the level of attention needed to comment on the game in any depth. From what I saw, we got beat deep time after time after time on Defense and Carr missed at least 3 long bomb TDs. There was plenty of blame to go around. Both Safety and CBs played a part, as well as a lacking pass rush. Drew showed more good than bad in my opinion. The pocket manipulation on the Jeudy throw was what I have been screaming out for all season. Hang in there, keep eyes downfield and delivered a perfect ball to hit his guy in stride. The result speaks for itself. Still, the game is moving too quick for him in the RZ and that is fine for a young QB, playing with a beat up team. Given our draft position, I honestly think the best way forward is to give him a full offseason in the same scheme with a (likely) very similar Offense personnel. This team is in DIRE need of game changing Defensive Linemen, CBs and consistent pass rush (1 + 3 could be the same). PFF seems to think it's a strong CB FA class but a weak interior DL FA class and a weak DL draft class. Big pressure on this team to find DL from somewhere. If I am Drew, I am seeking out Josh Allen in the off season and working out with him. But, I have heard the Josh Allen transformation was because his work ethic is out of this world. Drew needs to do that, because he has similar traits outside of the mobility that Allen has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: There was plenty of blame to go around. Both Safety and CBs played a part, as well as a lacking pass rush. I think it needs to be acknowledged that the team was missing Miller Chubb Casey Harris Purcell Bouye Callahan etc Where was the pass-rush going to come from - maybe the rookie 7th round pick who has spent the season on the PS and on IR - and what do you expect from a bunch of rookie CBS, one a 3rd round pick who has been half decent at time but is not a no.1 corner, a second a UDFA who is with his third team in a few months and a second year player who has played a handful of snaps. While the defence wasn't great in this game - I think we need to give them a pass given how well the have performed this season and how many players were missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, jolly red giant said: I think it needs to be acknowledged that the team was missing Miller Chubb Casey Harris Purcell Bouye Callahan etc Where was the pass-rush going to come from - maybe the rookie 7th round pick who has spent the season on the PS and on IR - and what do you expect from a bunch of rookie CBS, one a 3rd round pick who has been half decent at time but is not a no.1 corner, a second a UDFA who is with his third team in a few months and a second year player who has played a handful of snaps. While the defence wasn't great in this game - I think we need to give them a pass given how well the have performed this season and how many players were missing. I mean, that stuff goes without saying doesn't it? I am merely stating what happened in the game. My comments regarding what we need is in total consideration of our season as a whole. Even at full health this team is so short of top end talent up front. Shelby Harris is a good player to have on the roster. Capable of spotty disruption (PBUs in particular) but he's not someone that requires constant double teams on all 3 downs. Purcell is a really good NT when we are in our base 3-4. However, his impact becomes severely reduced when we are in our Nickel and teams start throwing the ball around. Casey almost definitely isn't going to be back next year (why would he take a paycut when he knows we will cut him and someone will give him more guaranteed $?) Even with Von, I don't like our pass rush. We've no idea how he is going to return and personally, I haven't been overly impressed with Chubb this year. His sack numbers are inflated with poor quality sacks and he hasn't been anywhere near the disruptive player in the run game that he was last year. Bouye is almost certainly gone for the same reasons as Casey. Callahan was awesome this year but he's always injured. This Defense is in serious flux right now and if they can't find a way to keep Simmons and Harris then there is even more investment required. Edited January 4, 2021 by lomaxgrUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Btw before it gets said that our O did enough to win yesterday consider this: - we got 10 pts off the 4 TO’s - 3 of which had us in LV territory. - from 2005 -19 - teams that are +4 in turnover differential were 285-9-1. https://www.boydsbets.com/handicapping-nfl-turnover-differential/ I think we all recognized we left a ton of pts on the field yesterday So this underlies IMO why yesterday didn’t really do much for our Q at QB. It was good for Jeudy and Ty Cleveland, and the OL - but that’s about it, realizing how bad the Raiders D is (to be fair Fangio’s game management gets a big assist too). Edited January 4, 2021 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said: I mean, that stuff goes without saying doesn't it? I am merely stating what happened in the game. My comments regarding what we need is in total consideration of our season as a whole. Even at full health this team is so short of top end talent up front. Shelby Harris is a good player to have on the roster. Capable of spotty disruption (PBUs in particular) but he's not someone that requires constant double teams on all 3 downs. Purcell is a really good NT when we are in our base 3-4. However, his impact becomes severely reduced when we are in our Nickel and teams start throwing the ball around. Casey almost definitely isn't going to be back next year (why would he take a paycut when he knows we will cut him and someone will give him more guaranteed $?) Even with Von, I don't like our pass rush. We've no idea how he is going to return and personally, I haven't been overly impressed with Chubb this year. His sack numbers are inflated with poor quality sacks and he hasn't been anywhere near the disruptive player in the run game that he was last year. Bouye is almost certainly gone for the same reasons as Casey. Callahan was awesome this year but he's always injured. This Defense is in serious flux right now and if they can't find a way to keep Simmons and Harris then there is even more investment required. Regarding Von and Casey, I see no reason why we can’t restructure them. In Von’s case, the only edge player even close to his age/caliber who’s gotten real money lately was Brandon Graham, and he got $27M for his age 31-33 seasons. For Von’s age 32-34 seasons, make that $32M, tack on his remaining $4.5M that’s currently guaranteed, and you’re real close. Hopefully you could lower the guarantees and add some incentives, but I think Von at $12M per is a fair number for both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Good news there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said: Regarding Von and Casey, I see no reason why we can’t restructure them. In Von’s case, the only edge player even close to his age/caliber who’s gotten real money lately was Brandon Graham, and he got $27M for his age 31-33 seasons. For Von’s age 32-34 seasons, make that $32M, tack on his remaining $4.5M that’s currently guaranteed, and you’re real close. Hopefully you could lower the guarantees and add some incentives, but I think Von at $12M per is a fair number for both sides. Von’s 18M salary for 2021 is 3rd in the league among EDGE’s (the 4.2M restructure bonus is Elway’s restructure to save on 2018 cap hit while paying Von the same cash salary then - Von doesn’t see a cent of that). Asking him to restructure to 12M as a pay cut would make him the 20th overall edge cash-wise. 20th. There’s zero chance Von would agree to that. https://overthecap.com/position/edge-rusher/2021/ (click on cash spent - that’s what matters in terms of restructures / present year money paid to player). Von’s unlikely to restructure as a straight pay cut. In his mind, he earned the deal by his past play. And he’ll get a ton of suitors even if he’s just top 12-15 play wise in 2022. Unfortunately, teams knowing he can leave in FA won’t pay a mint to acquire him, either. Von holds the leverage. One of the few times a player does; it’s difficult to believe he will relinquish it. Nor should he IMO. Edited January 4, 2021 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: Good news there. That is good news, hopefully he will be ready for the Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) And on the other incomplete target, Mullen clearly interfered/held with Jeudy with as well. CBS national TV commentators called it live both times, pretty funny. The 2-pt convert doesn't count in the stats, so Jeudy's tally: 7 official targets - 2pt convert does not count as a stat, so 8 5 catches, plus the 2 pt convert. 2 clear DPI/hold penalties (neither called). So, that's 8 wins for 8 targets for Jeudy. Now, LV's D isn't good, it's terrible - but THAT is the kind of game you wanted to see from Jeudy - where he dominates, and gets max output. He puts CB's in a blender so much, you want to see him get 8-12 targets a game (8 in a run-heavy script) - even with Sutton & Fant on the team. Just eliminate the drops, dude (and again, we saw about 3, if not 4 of the catches with pure hands, so it's not bad hands). The other part - realize that Sutton isn't going to be 100 percent burst-athleticism wise until the 2022 season - as it takes 18 months to get the full range of athletic prowess back (but you can play in 10+ months nowadays). So Jeudy's progress is crucial, as Sutton may not be the 2019 version yet, until 2022. Either way, it's a good way to end the year. It doesn't erase the whispers, but it's about as good as you could hope for given this is the Raiders pass D. Edited January 4, 2021 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcpbawler Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Broncofan said: And on the other incomplete target, Mullen clearly interfered/held with Jeudy with as well. The 2-pt convert doesn't count in the stats, so Jeudy's tally: 7 official targets - 2pt convert does not count as a stat, so 8 5 catches 2 clear DPI/hold penalties (neither called). Now, LV's D isn't good - but THAT is the kind of game you want to see from Jeudy - where he dominates, and gets max output. He puts CB's in a blender so much, you want to see him get 8-12 targets a game (8 in a run-heavy script) - even with Sutton & Fant on the team. Just eliminate the drops, dude (and again, we saw about 3, if not 4 of the catches with pure hands, so it's not bad hands). The other part - realize that Sutton isn't going to be 100 percent burst-athleticism wise until the 2022 season - as it takes 18 months to get the full range of athletic prowess back (but you can play in 10+ months nowadays). So Jeudy's progress is crucial, as Sutton may not be the 2019 version yet, until 2022. Either way, it's a good way to end the year. It doesn't erase the whispers, but it's about as good as you could hope for given this is the Raiders pass D. Well said. Jeudy finished with 52 rec for 856 yards and 3 TDs. With all the inconsistency at QB, that's pretty solid and similar to Courtland's rookie year. With Court, Fant and KJ next year, this team is poised for a breakout with just a little more at the QB position. Speaking of KJ... while you can easily put together a montage of Jeudy putting dudes in a blender, this is my favorite clip of a Denver WR this season. Edited January 4, 2021 by rcpbawler I don't know how to embed twitter links I guess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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