2021 GB Roster & Free Agents

[cannondale]

11 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

We’re trading Rodgers.  That’s a foregone conclusion.  His words, Murphy’s words...

It’s the most obvious thing in the world.

The only question is when.  If you can’t see that you’re in denial.

Maybe. Maybe not. I missed the quote where Murphy said "We are trading Rodgers."

I mean, you've been on this kick every 3 months for 4 years now. Sooner or later maybe you can say "I was right."

[fattlipp]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

We’re better off trading Rodgers right now instead of next year, cap implications considered.  Change my mind, but first consider:

1. No QB has ever won a Super Bowl accounting for 12.8% of the cap.  Aaron’s this year is going to be 20%.

2. Extra year on Love’s rookie contract as a starter makes him one year closer to winning one on his rookie contract.

3. If Love sucks, we know about it now instead of two or three years from now, allowing us to use some of the Rodgers capital to address QB.

4. We don’t have the draft capital nor the cap to improve enough this year to compete for a Super Bowl.

5. Aaron’s value drops with each year he ages.

 

Brady just made 25 out of 182, almost 14%

Mahommes will win one in next 3-4 years making over 40......

stats are Skued cause Brady won over half the rings in the last 15 years and he plays on a discount.

[fattlipp]

55 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

We’re trading Rodgers.  That’s a foregone conclusion.  His words, Murphy’s words...

It’s the most obvious thing in the world.

The only question is when.  If you can’t see that you’re in denial.

Think it depends on this year results, they definitely want to be able to keep it as an option...

[MacReady]

Just now, fattlipp said:

Brady just made 25 out of 182, almost 14%

Mahommes will win one in next 3-4 years making over 40......

stats are Skued cause Brady won over half the rings in the last 15 years and he plays on a discount.

It hasn't happened once in 50+ years and you say Mahomes will make one when he just lost. 

How many people said Rodgers would win another one after his 2011 season? 

[MacReady]

Look, listen, listen here...

At some point, maybe in my lifetime, there will be an outlier.  Some QB will win it all counting 15% against the cap.

It will take luck and hitting on a LOT of draft picks, plus a near flawless performance from that QB in the postseason.

A 3% outlier will happen.

But there’s no Goddamn way in hell Aaron Rodgers will be that outlier with Joe ****ing Barry as our defensive coordinator at 7% over the record.

It’s just not happening.

Either we extend him, write off 2021 (and a year of Love’s rookie contract), or we should trade him now and build this very strong team with three first round draft picks added.

OR, we trade Love and go all in with Rodgers.

The Packers organization is ****ing its fans, Rodgers and themselves with how they’re doing things right now.

We are literally just purgatoring.

It’s dumber than ****.

Like it is really, really, really dumb.

[cannondale]

15 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Look, listen, listen here...

At some point, maybe in my lifetime, there will be an outlier.  Some QB will win it all counting 15% against the cap.

It will take luck and hitting on a LOT of draft picks, plus a near flawless performance from that QB in the postseason.

A 3% outlier will happen.

But there’s no Goddamn way in hell Aaron Rodgers will be that outlier with Joe ****ing Barry as our defensive coordinator at 7% over the record.

It’s just not happening.

Either we extend him, write off 2021 (and a year of Love’s rookie contract), or we should trade him now and build this very strong team with three first round draft picks added.

OR, we trade Love and go all in with Rodgers.

The Packers organization is ****ing its fans, Rodgers and themselves with how they’re doing things right now.

We are literally just purgatoring.

It’s dumber than ****.

Like it is really, really, really dumb.

OR

Don't keep Capers around for 8 years too long

and

Draft better / smarter

That's 2 more rings right there. Brady didn't win those Super Bowls. Belichick and the Patriots did. Brady fell under the umbrella of Patriots. The Packers said, Rodgers win us Super Bowls. Huge difference, and it doesn't matter if his cap hit is 1% or 90%.

This isn't a Rodgers thing - its a Packers thing

[beekay414]

[ThatJerkDave]

11 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

[beekay414]

1 minute ago, ThatJerkDave said:

THAT'S IT! From here on out, I will be referring to @Outpost31 as GDA, short for Groundhog Dog, Again.

[mikemike778]

6 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

We’re better off trading Rodgers right now instead of next year, cap implications considered.  Change my mind, but first consider:

1. No QB has ever won a Super Bowl accounting for 12.8% of the cap.  Aaron’s this year is going to be 20%.

2. Extra year on Love’s rookie contract as a starter makes him one year closer to winning one on his rookie contract.

3. If Love sucks, we know about it now instead of two or three years from now, allowing us to use some of the Rodgers capital to address QB.

4. We don’t have the draft capital nor the cap to improve enough this year to compete for a Super Bowl.

5. Aaron’s value drops with each year he ages.

 

 

1. We competed for a super bowl last season, we competed very strongly and could well have won it. Pretty much the entire team is coming back and we have the draft class and the team who won it has a 45 year old QB. To say we can't compete in 2021 is fairly ridiculous.

2. Last season you needed an elite QB to reach the Championship game (the last four teams had the GOAT or one of the top 3 QBs in the league). With that in mind, I'm not trading the MVP

3. We have massively compromised future teams by over-spending on this team. You don't do that if this team isn't going to compete in 22 and we aren't competing in 22 with Love.

4. The 20% cap hit is irrelevant to the 2021 team. We have kicked about 30m worth of cap hits down the road - probably more. Yes its not great cap management of future years but the fact is pretty much all of his cap hit for 2021 is paid for by the cap we have kicked down the road so the 12.8% argument has zero relevance for this year.

5. I don't really care about getting value. If Love doesn't hit then we probably aren't going to competing for anything post Rodgers so the amount of picks you get doesn't matter. The reason you get a lot of picks now is because Rodgers gives you a chance to win a super bowl. 2021 might be our last chance for a very long time so I'm not giving up that chance for another pick.

6. Yes its not good use of Love's contract but you don't make the wrong decision on team direction just to get the most out of one player.

The strategy seems clear, bring everyone back and have a rebuild in 2022. In reality Love will get a one year audition. There is a good chance we will pick high in 2023 so if he doesn't prove himself in 2022 then we get another shot at a QB. Trading Rodgers now doesn't make any sense at all when set alongside other roster moves.

 

 

 

 

[MacReady]

Third overall, Nick Bosa, Javon Kinlaw for Aaron Rodgers and Rashan Gary. 

[gizmo2012]

11 hours ago, cannondale said:

Maybe. Maybe not. I missed the quote where Murphy said "We are trading Rodgers."

I mean, you've been on this kick every 3 months for 4 years now. Sooner or later maybe you can say "I was right."

Rodgers will be 38 this year so how many years do his fans think he has left = 2 to 4 likely and he is under contract for 3. Not sure what the issue is.

[craig]

19 hours ago, FinneasGage said:

i'm not mad at it. probably for the min and he's a solid ST guy and seems like one of our better locker room guys too. bring him to camp and make a young guy beat him for a spot. 

Packers roster website also lists Redmond.  https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/. Redmond played a *LOT* of snaps.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2020-snap-counts.htm

Raven Greene played a lot of snaps before getting injured.  We hope a draft pick or a younger talent moves past both Redmond and Raven.   Gray basically gave Raven's snaps to Redmond following Raven's injury.  So, I think there's a real possibility that Redmond might profile to pick up BOTH his snaps AND Raven's snaps.  (664 snaps combined).  That's a really risky way to move forward.  So it's really important to either really believe one of the internals could upgrade (Jackson?  Hollman?  Black?  Scott?  Ento?) or else that they add some upgrade potential. 

Obviously a high draft priority, for sure.  Not sure how to think: King is expiring, and is purely a boundary CB.  So I kinda want to be drafting for a future boundary-oriented King replacement.  But Raven-Redmond are NOT boundary types.  So do we need two completely different guys to replace both functions?  Or if you draft somebody good, he'll be good however you use him?  Or will Jaire get pushed inside, so that we actually need two boundaries?  I'm out of my league trying to process it all.  

Raven was ahead of Redmond on the snaps chart last year, when healthy.  Given that they've re-signed everybody else, I wonder if Raven will be next?  Or if there are injury-recovery reasons, or attitude reasons, or perhaps >minimum-wage expectations that are preventing that?  Or maybe they still figure to sign some outside guy who they like better than either Raven or Redmond?  Hard to anticipate.  

The defense was OK last year, and pretty good towards the end. And many of us felt even then that it wasn't out-performing it's talent.  So, suppose you resign Raven and basically bring the whole same talent back.  I'd still be fairly optimistic, that it could be supplemented with a couple of early-pick talents; perhaps you still add a vet somewhere; perhaps if the variably improved talent schemes a little better and plays a little better, what was good late last season could become very good this season?  And perhaps youth-development or improved health might contribute, too?  Has a chance to end up good enough to support a strong contender, **IF** we assume the offense could be high-end.  

[craig]

1 minute ago, craig said:

...there's a real possibility that Redmond might profile to pick up BOTH his snaps AND Raven's snaps.  (664 snaps combined).  That's a really risky way to move forward.  So it's really important to either really believe one of the internals could upgrade (Jackson?  Hollman?  Black?  Scott?  Ento?) or else that they add some upgrade potential. ...

 

I puzzle as to what hopes there are or aren't for internal improvement. 

Scott:  I think some people thought Scott looked OK?  I wonder how realistic it is for him to be able to replace many of the Raven/Redmond snaps? 

Ento:  Ento's been around, so I'm always hoping for some magical breakout from the unknown UDFA.  I admit some doubts; a UDFA like Tramon once was had still played a bunch of college snaps.  Did Ento convert only AFTER the Packers signed him?  Or did he actually play a season or two on defense at Colorado?  I can't remember.  Whatever his latent potential, it's a bummer that he's been injured early and often both seasons.  So as a guy who played little or nothing in college, and then hasn't actually been able to practice much, hard to see him having the experience to actually play.  Seems to me there are a lot of decisions and recognitions that guys in the Raven/Redmond role need, so seems remotely unlikely that a no-experience guy like Ento would quickly be ready for that role.  

Jackson:  Jackson obviously isn't viewed with much enthusiasm.  I wonder if the Packers think they could use him more or differently?  My recall is that Gray decided he just needed to try to figure out how to play one thing, boundary CB, rather than overload him with inside and slot and safety-ish responsibilities, too.  A year later, does Gray think he's good enough and ready enough to move into nickel/dime inside roles?  Or is his processing and decision/making, and quickness, not possible there?  And *IF* he's still on the team, it will strictly be as a boundary?  

Jaire:  What about Jaire?  To my amateur eye, Gray mostly used Jaire and King as opposite boundaries.  They and Jackson were all boundaries, and couldn't all three play together.  But, might Barry and Gray perhaps think they CAN use all three together, so that Jackson could be an option for Redmond?  Not necessarily by using Jackson inside, but by moving Jaire inside on some snaps where he, King, and Jackson are all in?  

Raven:  When healthy, they've used him.  How much $$ or roster cost might it be to just sign him again for cheap, and *IF* he stays healthy enough to play, might he not again be upgrade to Redmond?  

Other FA:  Not sure there is much left out there that Gute will afford that would upgrade?  Or are there actually still some thrify guys who'd upgrade relative to Raven/Redmond?  

Draft:  Go directly for an inside secondary "star" type guy in the draft?  In draft threat, for example, gopackgo972 suggests we should go for that with our #1 pick, and leave boundary cover-corner for some other solution.  Who knows? 

Interested in other thoughts by smarter posters?  

[FAH1223]

13 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

We’re trading Rodgers.  That’s a foregone conclusion.  His words, Murphy’s words...

It’s the most obvious thing in the world.

The only question is when.  If you can’t see that you’re in denial.

It'll be next year after we lose in spectacular fashion in January.

It is obvious that the team and Rodgers want to rid themselves of each other. More specifically Murphy wants to get rid of him.

Assuming Love isn't good, that may be the catalyst to getting the much needed changes in the front office down the line.