Stafford traded to the Rams for Goff, multiple FRPs

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

Difference is that Goff was always a byproduct of the offense, rather than the driver of the offense.

Well, that's your assumption. 

[fortdetroit]

17 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Its amazing how people who know almost nothing about the Rams or the Lions are now experts on both.

• Blather: Stafford will now have the best protection of his entire career!
• Truth: Their best O-lineman is 40 and Goff has had to run for his life often the last 2 years.

 

Stafford is 10-59 vs playoff teams. That's a .144 win percentage

• This includes the 3 years that he was on his own playoff team
• Nick Foles beat 2 playoff teams on the 2015 Rams (2-5) 
  • Am I supposed to believe that Stafford's Lions were worse than the 2015 Rams?
• Gardner Minshew is 2-3 against playoff teams.
  • Am I supposed to believe that Stafford's Lions were worse than the 2019-20 Jags?
• Sam Darnold is 2-11 vs playoff teams!
  • Am I supposed to believe that Stafford's Lions were worse than the 2018-20 Jets?
• Fitzmagic was 2-4 against playoff teams in 2019
  • Am I supposed to believe that Stafford's Lions were worse than the 2019 Dolphins?

Are people actually using that Lions crap as an excuse?

 

If your QB can only win with superior talent then anyone can be your QB because that's easy.

If your QB has to make you better than you are on that day, then Stafford is not your man.

If McVay thinks he can fix him then good luck, because that dude needs fixing.

You must be new to Detroit football. 

 

Stafford's win/loss record against good teams is obviously really bad.  That's a byproduct of being on bad teams, some bad play at times, and extraordinary bad luck/Lionsing,  As you pointed out, even worse quarterbacks on worse teams are winning these games at higher rate than Stafford has.  Unless you think Gardner Minshew is better than Stafford?

Edited February 2, 2021 by fortdetroit

[fortdetroit]

17 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Stafford only had 1 year with a top 5 defense (2014)

Here is how he played against playoff teams that year.

• 7-8-1 Carolina beat the Lions 24-7
  • Stafford was 27-48 for 291 yards 1 TD 1 pick 72.5 rating
• The Lions beat 12-4 Green Bay 19-7
  • Stafford was 22-34 for 246 yards 0 TDs 2 picks 61.6 rating
  • The Lions got a safety and a fumble return for a TD
• 11-5 Arizona beat the Lions 14-6
  • Stafford was 18-30 for 183 yards and a pick 63.6 rating
• 12-4 New England beat the Lions 34-9
  • Stafford was 18-46 for 264 yards 0 TDs 1 pick 49.5 rating
• 12-4 Green Bay beat the Lions 30-20
  • Stafford was 20-41 for 217 yards 3 TDs 0 picks 89.2 rating
• 12-4 Dallas beat the Lions 24-20 in the wildcard round
  • Stafford was 28-42 for 323 yards 1 TD and 1 pick 87.7 rating
    • He also lost 2 fumbles on the last drive (the defender fumbled back the first fumble)
    • Romo was a 114 rated QB that day against that top 5 D

1-5 against playoff teams with a playoff team and the 1 win had very little to do with him.

So now the Rams win the Super Bowl?   👀

 

That was one of the worst years of Stafford's career.  Unfortunately, it coincided with the one season in his career that they actually had a great defense.

[fortdetroit]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Well, that's your assumption. 

Pretty sure we'll see that in Detroit this year when he looks terrible not with McVay and the Lions go 6-10.  

If we was the reason the Rams were winning games and Stafford was the reason the Lions were losing more often than not (QB WINZZZZ) we should expect the Rams to have a mediocre record next season and the Lions should be like 10-6 right?  

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, fortdetroit said:

Pretty sure we'll see that in Detroit this year when he looks terrible not with McVay and the Lions go 6-10.  

If we was the reason the Rams were winning games and Stafford was the reason the Lions were losing more often than not (QB WINZZZZ) we should expect the Rams to have a mediocre record next season and the Lions should be like 10-6 right?  

If the Lions went 6-10 with Goff, that would be one more win than they had under Stafford in 2020. As for your second question, nobody can say what we should expect out of either team when we have no idea what those teams will look like in a few months. The Lions top WRs are all hitting FA. A good chunk of the Rams defense is hitting FA. The Rams have a strong core, so they're unlikely to fall off dramatically. The Lions might be a totally different team next year.

Simply put, the bigger issue here isn't if the Rams will be mediocre and the Lions will be good. It's if Stafford elevates the Rams and if the Lions decline under Goff. If the Lions stay the same or get better and the Rams stay the same, the Rams lost the trade, and it almost certainly blows a hole in your theory (unless Goff is terrible and the Lions win despite him).

[fortdetroit]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

If the Lions went 6-10 with Goff, that would be one more win than they had under Stafford in 2020. As for your second question, nobody can say what we should expect out of either team when we have no idea what those teams will look like in a few months. The Lions top WRs are all hitting FA. A good chunk of the Rams defense is hitting FA. The Rams have a strong core, so they're unlikely to fall off dramatically. The Lions might be a totally different team next year.

Simply put, the bigger issue here isn't if the Rams will be mediocre and the Lions will be good. It's if Stafford elevates the Rams and if the Lions decline under Goff. If the Lions stay the same or get better and the Rams stay the same, the Rams lost the trade, and it almost certainly blows a hole in your theory (unless Goff is terrible and the Lions win despite him).

And?  That's my point.  I'm not a QB winz guy. You apparently are. I would expect a bad team to have a poor record, regardless of the QB (outside of a Mahomes, Rodgers, etc).  The Lions have a terrible roster, and outside of the Caldwell years (average) have largely had terrible coaching as well.  Record is a reflection of the overall team, not the QB.

 

Yes, both teams will likely be different next year just like every team is different (duh).  The Lions had arguably the worst defense in franchise history last year though, so it's unlikely they will be worse in that regard which is a positive for Goff as far as W/L record goes.

Edited February 2, 2021 by fortdetroit

[jrry32]

7 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

And?  That's my point.  I'm not a QB winz guy. You apparently are. I would expect a bad team to have a poor record, regardless of the QB (outside of a Mahomes, Rodgers, etc).  The Lions have a terrible roster, and outside of the Caldwell years (average) have largely had terrible coaching as well.  Record is a reflection of the overall team, not the QB.

 

Yes, both teams will likely be different next year just like every team is different (duh).  The Lions had arguably the worst defense in franchise history last year though, so it's unlikely they will be worse in that regard which is a positive for Goff as far as W/L record goes.

I think QBs play a major role in wins and losses. I don't think they're the sole determinant. However, I think W-L records and offensive success add context to a conversation because, as I stated earlier, not even "individual" stats are truly individual.

[fortdetroit]

4 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Alex Smith is 11-5 on the WFT (2018 and 2020)

• The WFT was 3-13 without Alex Smith in 2018 and 2020
• This is what good QB s do. He was also 1-3 vs playoff teams (.333)

 

Brian Hoyer was 10-6 and  3-3 vs playoff teams on the 2013-2014 Browns

• Cleveland was 8-18 overall when Hoyer was not at QB those years.
• If Stafford can't be as clutch as Hoyer, you have a problem.

 

Stafford is not an all-time loser against playoff teams because of coaching, teammates, defenses, scheme, or injuries.

• Its because he has been bad when they need him to be good.
• McVay could very well fix him, or make it easier on him, or both but its reality.
• The talent on the Stafford Lions was mediocre, not bad. (with occasional dips into bad and dips into good)

In those 2 seasons of games by Alex Smith referenced, the Redskins gave up 19.5 points per game.  The Redskins rush DVOA those two seasons was 14th and 20th best (average of 17th). 

The Lions gave up 32.4, 26.4, 22.5, 23.5, 22.6, 25.0, 18.0, 23.5, 27.3, and 25.4 points per game the last 10 seasons.  The Lions rush DVOA the last 10 seasons has ranked: 21, 27, 19, 30, 28, 25, 28, 26, 12, and 16. 

The one season of his career that Stafford's defense was in the ballpark of 19.5 PPG, they went 11-5.

In one of the two seasons of his career that Stafford's running game was 17th or better, they went 10-6 (bad the other year). 

He's had a better than average run game one time ever.  He's had a top tier defense one time ever.  He's never had both at the same time.

Let's not pretend we're comparing apples to apples here.  With Smith, or the majority of other QBs.

Edited February 2, 2021 by fortdetroit

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

24 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

If the Lions went 6-10 with Goff, that would be one more win than they had under Stafford in 2020.

If the Lions went 6-10 with Goff, and still had the worst defense in the league, that might be a statement. (Although the Patricia stuff really took a toll on the team.)

[fortdetroit]

14 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I think QBs play a major role in wins and losses. I don't think they're the sole determinant. However, I think W-L records and offensive success add context to a conversation because, as I stated earlier, not even "individual" stats are truly individual.

Ok.  Then like I said, we should expect the Lions to have a good season record wise next year, despite their poor roster, as Goff has shown he's a "winner."

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

Ok.  Then like I said, we should expect the Lions to have a good season record wise next year, despite their poor roster, as Goff has shown he's a "winner."

Okay. Bet.

[rocky_rams]

46 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Well, that's your assumption. 

Come on dude this not an assumption. Goff would be out the league if McVay didn’t come and save him after the whole Fisher debacle

if Fisher was still coach, Goff would not even be in the league. 
 

nexf year will give us a better idea of who Goff is without McVay 

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Come on dude this not an assumption. Goff would be out the league if McVay didn’t come and save him after the whole Fisher debacle

if Fisher was still coach, Goff would not even be in the league. 
 

nexf year will give us a better idea of who Goff is without McVay 

It's absolutely an assumption. It's irrelevant what Goff would have been under Fisher. There's a reason he's not a NFL HC anymore. We have no idea what Goff might have done under another play-caller who didn't suck. We'll find out in Detroit.

Edited February 2, 2021 by jrry32

[rocky_rams]

30 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It's absolutely an assumption. It's irrelevant what Goff would have been under Fisher. There's a reason he's not a NFL HC anymore. We have no idea what Goff might have done under another play-caller who didn't suck. We'll find out in Detroit.

By you saying it’s an assumption it means that Goff was more responsible for the offenses success more than McVay. 
 

in no way, shape, or form is that true

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, rocky_rams said:

By you saying it’s an assumption it means that Goff was more responsible for the offenses success more than McVay. 
 

in no way, shape, or form is that true

No, it doesn't. You're arguing with a straw man of your own creation. McVay can design a great system, and Goff can execute that system well. In such a scenario, both are responsible for the offense's success. Goff isn't a "byproduct of the offense" if he can succeed in other systems.